CCW Question of the Week

Posted: September 24, 2009 in DC Comics, Life, Opinion, Question of the Week
Tags: , , ,

Boot to the Face

Before getting to this week’s question I want to give you guys and gals a little bit of a set up for it. Yesterday friend of the CCW, JohnnyHorror, left the following comment on a post:

Hey, Jose. I was talkn’ to the owner of one of the comic shops I frequent and noticed that the number of “Batwoman in Detective Comics” was kinda light.

When I asked him why, he said because a number of his subscribers didn’t like it. Apparently, they have no problem with the art or story (for the most part) but feel that a Lesbian Superhero is being shoved down their throats for shock value.

I recall you saying it wasn’t selling well in an earlier video. So what is the take from fans over your way???

Which now lead me to this week’s two-part question:

Are you currently buying Detective Comics? If yes, why do you buy it? If no, why aren’t you buying it?

To first answer JohnnyHorror’s question: Yes, overall sales of the title have gone down. But at the store I work at sales are still strong. We have increased our initial orders for each of the first 4 issues featuring Batwoman. Even with our increased orders we will still most likely sell out of the new issue in the next couple of days and will place a reorder on Monday.

As as for the comment that the shop owner Johnny talked to made: I have absolutely no fucking idea how anyone can think that DC “is shoving a lesbian superhero down their throats for shock value.” This to me just sounds like complete ignorance or just outright homophobia coming from fanboys. How is DC shoving Batwoman down their throats? How is it all about shock value? Did fanboys just have enough when in the last issue Kate Kane wore a tuxedo and then…GASP…danced with a woman? Oh, horror of horrors. Greg Rucka has handled the Batwoman character and her story with the utmost respect and dignity and at no point has he gone out of his way to push the fact the Kate Kane is a lesbian into the faces of fanboys.

Now for my answer to this week’s question: Yes, I buy Detective Comics. I buy it because, as a total package, this is what comic books should be. Intelligent writing, beyond beautiful art, a strong willed protagonist with morals, compassion and a sense of duty. These are the qualities of the book I cherish. Now, if fanboys can’t enjoy any of these things for the simple reason the the character is a lesbian then those fanboys have some serious personal issues.

Greg Rucka, J.H. Williams III, Dave Stewart and the rest of the people who work on this book will probably have quite a few awards headed their way next year for I truly believe that Detective Comics will undoubtedly be seen as the best comic book of the year by those who matter.

J.

JohnnyHorror’s You Tube Page

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Comments
  1. Pobra says:

    my answer is, of course i’m reading Detective Comics! Why? Because it is one of, if not the best comics on the stands right now. Anybody who is not buying this comic because the female protagonist is a lesbian, is a fucking moron and should grow the fuck up. It amazes me that people are still freaked out by homosexuality, in today’s world that is just fucking ridiculous. Oh well, they are missing out on something great by being such closed minded, immature douche bags, their loss. I would like to see this book in the top 10 for sales though, it is more than deserving.

  2. generaldark says:

    i read and buy this title and LOVE it so much!, its something new and different. it gives batwoman a chance to shine and show she is more then just a lesbian in a bat suit. you have no idea how pissed off i am at those fanbois. how can we get anything nice in this industry if they dont give anything a chance? this is ridiculous. i even enjoy the back story of the question as well! this is one of the best comics i buy and i dont want this ruined by such moronic fanboi just because there against lesbian since they have no chance in getting in relationships with any form of girls. ….god i hate society 😦

  3. comicbookdude89 says:

    I am proud to be a buyer of Detective Comics. Why? Because of it’s a good story with kick-ass art. Yes I do not support same sex marriage, but that doesn’t affect the feelings I have for the character of Batwoman. It boggles my mind that people would rather buy Hulk instead of Detective Comics. I wonder if Hulk sales would suffer if Loeb turned Hulk or Red Hulk into a gay guy. That would be interesting.

  4. phil says:

    Myself, I buy DET. not because of BW’s orientation, but despite it. Rucka has put out an entertaining read that makes you instantly want to buy the next issue and probably the next arc. Besides…BW is not defined by her preferences, she is defined by what she is willing to sacrifice to help in her way to make the world a better place.
    The art on the other hand is a different story. JH2’s work while at times, pleasing to the eye. his work has always had an artificial look to it. Frankly, it looks traced. The Gregs’ Land and Horn are not the only ones out there that do that. Lastly, whether I’m right or wrong, it goes to Rucka’s strength as a writer for why I continue to pick this comic up.

    k….o..

  5. thetum says:

    I buy Detective comics and enjoy it immensely for many reasons. For one its just about the best looking book out there, two, it not only delivers one really good constantly entertaining story but, two really good stories, its the only book on the stands that actually makes me want to read the back up story. Also every issue is packed with hidden subliminal words and sexual innuendos and its so damn fun to look for them and spot them out. but thats a whole other subject, but the bottom line is that its a solid damn comic and its the only one that doesn’t make cause me to die a little inside every time i see the 3.99 price tag. It’s both written well and illustrated well, its the total package… The Cadillac of comic books.

  6. JohnnyHorror92182 says:

    I read Batwoman in Detective Comics because it’s Cresent Fresh w/ Fucking Awesome Sauce drizzled over it! ‘Nuff Said.

    I don’t know why readers feel that this character is being “Forced Upon Them”. I would actually like to talk to some of these people and get inside their heads. I think Rucka really understands female characters and I enjoy Batwoman as a character and have been wanting to see more of her for awhile, so that is why I am reading this. (Also, I am reading the new Batgirl title)

  7. MANACONDA! says:

    i do not. simply for the fact i dont generally read dc. just the occasional elseworlds comic.

  8. Linwood E. Knight says:

    Are you currently buying Detective Comics?

    Are you kidding? Not only am I buying Detective, it’s the first thing I read in my weekly stack, when it’s not competing with Fables, Secret Warriors or Black Panther.

    If yes, why do you buy it?

    I buy it, because the writing is awesome. I buy it, because the main character is not only a badass, she’s also a very deep and complex person, who is not only taking it upon herself to use whatever gifts she has, but she’s also trying to find time to juggle aspects of her life that she wants (love, the approval of her father), and the stuff that’s thrust upon her (High Society Social Circle, a mother who means well, but doesn’t understand her). I buy it, because it isn’t afraid to go places that Batman books rarely go without looking ridiculous. I buy it, because I can’t predict what’s going to happen next (the twist at the end of #857 was awesome). I buy it, because it shows that a character can still be badass, but still have lines that she won’t cross. (again, #857 is awesome) I buy it, because it gives a newer character the spotlight. I buy it, because she is a lesbian, and reading her viewpoints are always informing. I buy it, because the art is badass. I buy it, because you need to read it more than once to fully understand it. I buy it, because it’s everything I’m looking for in my super-hero comics.

    The same fanboys that shun this book, because they’re being homophobes are the same fanboys that buy the same shitty books every month, don’t try out the unfamiliar, give Quesada and Didio the free pass to make Marvel and DC their personal playgrounds, and are making it okay for the industry to stagnate. This news disturbs me, and we need to make sure we spread the good word about this book.

  9. comicbookdude89 says:

    It makes me soooooooo happy to see Detective Comics selling out at my comic book store that I usually go to. I did a post on my blog about sexism in comics and strong portrayls of women comic book characters. Here is a link if your interested:

    http://comicbookdude89.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/reasons-to-love-comic-books-strong-protrayal-of-female-characters/

  10. Dan Griffin says:

    I Buy it. I felt the last issue just really tied everything together. I love Alice having a moment of Sanity before her big jump. I hope to see more of her soon. I won’t say anything about the art because everything that could be said has already been said. Rucka Always writes a strong Female so it no change here. I love Detective and i will keep buying untill Rucka, JH Williams III, or Jock for when he comes on to fill in stop.

  11. Deemar says:

    Fuck yeah i’m reading Detective, this thing is beautiful. Rucka is creating new baddies for Batwoman that equal Batman’s rogues and the lesbian thing is an non-issue, it’s like not reading Black Panther because it got to many black people. It’s Rucka’s best work since WW and anyone hating on this comic has personal issues they need to take care of

  12. hero vs. villian says:

    No. Why?
    I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEE to buy detective comics with Greg Rucka on it, but I live in acity where there is NO comcis shop, and the only comic I see in convience store is Amazing Spider-Man. That I but, but if only my city got Detective Comics in it’s convience stores, I would be buying it the second I would have saw it.

  13. Chris says:

    I read it. Its really exciting, and its certainly my favourite big two book right now. Apparently the next arc is more back story stuff which should be good! I want to know about Kate, her dad and Alice/Beth(?)… Also it does look amazing.

  14. thecomicrant says:

    I don’t pick it up. I will however get the trade, since I like the idea of Kate and the art is just ridiculously gorgeous.

    Why don’t I buy the single issues? It’s 3.99 and I’m strapped for cash, for one and also I just don’t really read Batman books.

    The only mainstream DC books I read are Wonder Woman and World of New Krypton. With the occasional Supergirl.

  15. Matthew Guy says:

    Are you currently buying Detective Comics? Yes, I have no problem ponying up the extra buck (I dropped Daredevil when Brubaker left) & because Batman will soon suck Tony “S. for Shitty” Daniel.

    If yes, why do you buy it? To be honest, I like Greg Rucka as a writer be it from a Superman book, Wonder Woman or now Detective Comics. The art is stunning in everyway possible. I dont give a damn if Batwoman is gay I am NOT CNN or Fox News seeking new fake outrage to hear about all the time.

    Matthew

  16. mbell028 says:

    Detective Comics is currently one of my favorite books out right now. I completely agree with Jose on this one I’m glad this was brought up. I figured people weren’t buying it only because its a female character but if its because the character is a lesbian then thats absolutely ridiculous.

  17. Antonio says:

    I get the book only for the creative team. Once they leave I leave.

    Not really interested in the characters. I like Williams’ pretty pictures and Rucka’s writing.

    Now if the next creative team is a great team like this one then I might stay on. But then again …..Bruce might be back by that time….

  18. MatthewHex says:

    Great discussions guys.
    I’m gonna speak from experience here and be totally honest. When I started reading comics as a young teenager I had no interest in lead female characters, I would rather follow the male characters I could relate to or wanted to be like, which is narrow minded i know now, but I was young, and didnt know better, and maybe this is still the problem with younger readers today.

    Looking back now in my mid-20s i think it was ridiculous. I read stories I like, by writers and artists I like, regardless of sexuality or gender. I think DETEC is prob the BEST produced book on the shelf, and wouldnt have a second thought about picking it up because there is a female lead or that she is a lesbian. I also buy and love reading The Sword, again with a strong female lead, and buy and enjoy secret six, which has a cast of strong female characters, written by a female.

    Guess what Im trying to say is, and maybe I shouldnt be painting all younger readers with the same brush here, but perhaps young male readers just arent interested in batwoman as a character because she IS female, and thats a shame. Older readers should definately know better though no doubt. And If youre not reading this book then make sure you do from now on, because you’re missing out on something great.

  19. therichestmanintown says:

    Detective Comics is my favorite book right now. I get it every week it comes out and am always blown away by the paneling alone. As for the whole lesbian thing, Detective Comics handles it better than any other book I’ve read. Secret Six shoves the lesbian aspect down people’s throats as seen in the issue where Scandal meets some chick at a grocery story that looks like her ex-girlfriend, whom just happened to be in the perfect relationship with Scandal, and the two hit it off perfectly like a lesbian mirror to the creepiest love story of all time, “P.S. I Love You”. When Scandal is gone without calling her instant romantic encounter from the grocery story, the chick tries to call Scandal from her work and cries because Scandals is not around. With Batwoman, Kaine gets bags under her eyes and her girlfriend dumps her because she thinks that Kaine is cheating on her, now THAT’S good lesbian writing, where the characters actually go through real shit rather than everything being perfect.

  20. Locusmortis says:

    People are surprised that fanbois are socially and emotionally retarded? Perhaps they’re jealous that a comic book character gets more girls than them?

    • therichestmanintown says:

      Finding someone to love is harder than finding someone who looks like your previous lover. It takes commitment, something that a person who spends their nights fighting crime would find difficult to do and something that a person belonging to a group of murderers would find even harder.

  21. alfred monty says:

    Answer
    ======

    I’m buying Detective Comics because I like the story, the art and the characters.
    Even the backups are good. I don’t believe anyone says the story or art is not first rate.

    Understanding of Gender and Sexuality
    =====================================

    Without being too political… I’m biased. I’m left-handed and not by choice. I also like brunettes, and I have no idea why besides that they’re beautiful. 🙂

    Most Americans under the age of 35 (according to polls and my experience) believe that sexuality isn’t a choice and are for equal rights. Also from my experience the people who read comics have fairly idealistic beliefs except when it comes to gender and sexual politics.

    I wonder if the Comics Code set a tone (for some decades) that publishers shouldn’t genuinely talk about these topics without the threat for government fueled/started boycott. This may have had a trickle-down effect because writers/editors usually read comics as kids. Might explain this particular cult of masculinity.

    Unfair Comparison
    =================

    If I compare Detective #854-#857 to the recent Kid Rawhide issues… Well that mini-series sucked. Also Detective doesn’t read like it was written by a “jerk of a jerk.” (To steal a line from a recent Spider-Man issue.)

    Marketing
    =========

    How well would these issues sell if the title was Batwoman and not Detective Comics? The anti-female-characters and the homophobe groups wouldn’t be buying, but I wonder if the collection-obsessed group would skip a $2.99 Batwoman (sans the Question backups) to buy Detective starring Red Robin, Azrael, Batgirl, etc.

    I ask because I wonder how DC decided to star Batwoman in Detective… Maybe they did market research? Maybe it is a favor to Rucka and Williams? Maybe a game of darts?

  22. Variant Girl says:

    I buy this book for the simple reason that is the perfect coupling of writing and art. I don’t feel like DC is pushing the sexual orientation of a main character down anyone’s throat. In fact, I don’t think they even use it as a marketing ploy too sell comics. Fanboys need to grow up seriously. If that is the reason fanboys are not buying this comic, that’s pretty embarasssing for the comic community. I think that fanboys have a problem with any female in the lead role of any comic book. Fanboys LOVE to hate on female leads for any stupid lame ass reason they can find NOT to support the books! I guess the only time fanboys feel comfortable with lesbians is when they are fucking one another in a porn. DC should be commended for letting a character like Batwoman headline Detective Comics, and Greg Rucka is doing an awesome job writing it. But then again he did a great job with WW as well.

    Hey all you FANBOYS out there here’s a little secrect that only us girls really know. The depiction of lesbians or bi-sexual women in pornography….ISN’T FUCKING REAL! The writing that Rucka does for Dect. Comics is fair and well portrayed in my opinion. I don’t know if the comic book community is ready for lesbians or bi-sexuals or homosexuals in comics, pretty sad if that’s the case.

    It’s 2009 let’s all grow up and just start appreciating good work.

  23. Fuck this book is great, and unlike Spiderwoman Jessica Drew, Batwoman is a character I care about, if you are not buying this book I suggest you do and back story is also great I enjoy the female Question she is awesome.

  24. apoehler says:

    I buy Tec because it has possibly the best artwork ever to appear in comics. The fact that it’s well-written makes it something worth coming back to.

  25. Smallmaniac says:

    I don’t like homosexuality. Yes, it’s because of my faith. No, that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy a good story with homosexual or bi-sexual characters (ex: Torchwood). Of course it causes me to lose interest somewhat, but so does a whole slew of other things like borderline pornographic sex scenes, profanity, or violence. Stop hating people for their beliefs. And people who share such beliefs shouldn’t hate people for living a certain way. ‘Nuff said.

    • Points to you too, SM, for your honesty.

      Oh man…you are NOT gonna like what I say in Last Rants…

      😉

      Elliott

      • Smallmaniac says:

        I always enjoy it when you say something I don’t like. Your show is kinda based on the premise that you disagree with stuff most people agree with. As long as it makes me think I love it.

    • I will never stop “hating” people for their beliefs as long as those beliefs lead to ignorant, shameful and disrespectful treatment of human beings. I find it quite disgusting that any human being can think that they are better than anybody else. Also, please do not pretend to think you can tell me what to do, especially on here. There are plenty of other places on the internet where you will be cheered and vilified for what you think and I really don’t think that place is here.

      J.

      • Smallmaniac says:

        I wasn’t directing the comment at you specifically, just a general statement as a response to what I’ve seen among the comments on this post.

        I think you misunderstood what I said somewhere. I don’t think I’m better than anyone else, nor do I think that those who do are right in doing so. I also was trying to say that people who aren’t especially attracted to the homosexual lifestyle because of whatever reason shouldn’t hate homosexuals.

        If you review a book, and I disagree with your review, that doesn’t mean I think I’m better than you or that I think your a bad person for thinking of a book in a certain way. If you in anyway thought that I was trying to convey some sort of hate I honestly wasn’t. The opposite in fact.

        Also, wouldn’t it be better to pity those who you disagree with instead of hating them? Hate never leads to anything good. Not trying to tell you what to do, just a suggestion.

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