Marvel Comics at the Start of a New Decade

Posted: January 19, 2010 in DC Comics, Marvel, Opinion
Tags: ,

“Kirby’s dead. I don’t see why his family deserves a thing, they didn’t draw shit for marvel.”

The above quote was taken from comments section of a recent CBR article on Marvel Comics suing Jack Kirby’s family to stop their copyright reversion claims. Now, I’m not going to get into the detail of the claim and suit as that would take an article of its own, just suffice to say that even after he’s dead Marvel still treats Jack Kirby like crap.

Make no mistake, without the team of Lee & Kirby in the 60’s Marvel comics as it stands today would probably not exist, and if it did it certainly wouldn’t be the number one publisher in the market. Without Kirby’s huge creativity and great productivity the “Marvel Age” of comics would have died before it got started.

So how does Marvel’s treatment of Kirby (and other creators) and the above quote tie into how Marvel is behaving in the last year or so? Well, Marvel as a company is interested in making money for its shareholders, now that’s fine as long as they provide value for money and treat their past creators well but in both instances they are failing. They charge $3.99 for 22 page comics and they don’t pay royalties to Kirby and others for reprinting their work. They pack special issues with worthless backmatter like Cup o’ Joe columns and Ares’ War plan but they rarely give proper Creator Credits (see Captain America: Who Will Wield the Shield, the recent Tales of Asgard series and many more). And why do Marvel comics act this way? We know they want money right? So the question is how do they think they’ll get away with acting this way? In my opinion the “Kirbys dead” quote leads one to the answer to that conundrum: Its because the Fanboys allow….nay encourage Marvel to act in such a way. (And I don’t consider CCW readers to be fanboys (or girls), if you appreciate what CCW stands for you are way above the level of fanboys)

The fanboys show through their actions that they will buy any $3.99 drek that Bendis or Loeb or Millar will serve up to them with a big inane grin on their faces and they’ll thank Marvel for the privilege. They will allow their wallets to be pillaged by the likes of a $3.99 Dark Reign: Zodiac mini-series because they will buy anything that Marvel will tell them to. They will spit on a dead creator and his family because they think that getting some copyrights back and receiving a few royalties will stop their precious company from putting out more ponderous crap like Captain America: Reborn, yet another unnecessary 5…no sorry 6 issue miniseries (did the story suddenly get 1/5th better? …no I didn’t think so) with which to rip off the fans. Why should Marvel try harder when the fanboys are willing to just sit there and take whatever crap is dished out.

And the ironic thing? From every interview I’ve read (and I’ve read many) that Jack Kirby gave, one thing that shines through is that he cared about the fans, he wanted to tell good stories that had a positive meaning even if the protagonists had to suffer through it, he didn’t go for cheap fanboy fan service like ripping a female characters head off or sexually assaulting a female hero. He was better than that but hey if that’s what the fanboys want that’s what Bendis, Loeb and Marvel should give them right?

Instead of taking the high ground and trying to keep the price of comics at a standard $2.99 (you know the recession and all that?), Marvel does the opposite and rips off the stupid fanboys with a 33% price increase because they know that they’ll take it. They flood the market with crappy $3.99 miniseries to try and force the Distinguished Competition off the shelves. Instead of giving good quality back-up stories like their main competition did, they give you more house ads for more overpriced crap and smiling’ Joe will slam anyone that complains on his Cup o’ Joe column because you know “paper costs go up and uh ink and stuff yeah…*hey Tom do you think they’ll believe this crap I’m comin’ out with*”

Sadly Joe, there are all too many Marvel Zombies that will believe it and will keep buying it…until they lose their jobs at the Kwikie-Mart and have no money left to feed their habits. Actually, one could safely say it is an addiction. Even for me, I gave up smoking 11 years ago and it was easier than quitting Marvel comics. I had 15 regular Marvel titles on my pull list at the start of 2009 and I’m down to 3 at the moment and 2 of those are Hickman titles. Comic collecting really does have similarities to an addiction and the craving is strong enough that the weakest of fanboys out there will support Marvel no matter what.

“Kirby’s dead” indeed. I don’t think the King would care for the current actions of Marvel editorial and the business practices of Marvel as a whole. Well ,Joey Q and Dan Buckley, Kirby is alive in the hearts of those who still like good comics. You don’t have to have read a Kirby story, as long as you still care about comics and like to read good stories that ordinary people can afford then the spirit of Kirby, Buscema, Everett and all the other greats still lives on.

That brings us to the last week or so and how this piece came about. When I saw the press release that Marvel was suing the Kirby family I mailed Jose the article with the subject line “Its like marvel wants me to hate the company even more”, an emotional reaction for sure but I like to think that I care about the history of comics and the creators that made them. I think all comics fans should care because if we can’t appreciate the past how can we appreciate the present?

Shortly after the news of the lawsuit Marvel comes out with this promotion where retailers could send in Blackest Night comics in return for a crappy Deadpool cover variant of Siege #3. Then Tom Brevoort comes out with his stupid twitter comments about how Marvel are “thinking of the retailers”…like hell they are, I mean who in their right mind would believe horseshit like that? It’s insulting to anyone with half a brain to even utter something so preposterous. Luckily there are still some out there with half a brain (or more!) and this publicity stunt looks like its going to rebound on Marvel as another sign of their shitty business practices. (And on the topic of Deadpool….just how overexposed is that character? How can there be 3 regular titles for him and Agents of Atlas can’t sell? Well, ask the fanboys, eh? Even though I don’t like him as a writer and absolutely hate his art I hope that Rob Liefeld is getting shitloads of royalties for it.)

So, in addition to over-priced comics and useless mini-series we now get Marvel treating a creator’s family like dirt and a douchebag promotion aimed at a another company justified by weasely words from an editor.

Bit by bit over the last year Marvel has destroyed my trust in the company. I wouldn’t mind if it was just some stories or artists I didn’t like but it’s the business practices of the company towards its fans and creators that I dislike and trust is a hard thing to rebuild. So what can Marvel do?

Make good comics that take more than 2 minutes to read.

Make them at a reasonable cost.

Treat older creators better.

Stop acting like dicks.

Simple, eh? Will it happen? Well , I’ve got my doubts right now but I think at some stage it will have to.

-Locusmortis

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Comments
  1. MicahSkin says:

    This has me considering dropping the few Marvel titles I still get and not even going for trades anymore. I want to support a good writer/artist team as much as the next guy but I realize the 2.99 or 3.99 I spend, the majority ain’t going into the creators’ pockets. I’m having a hard time justifying spending the money.

  2. Pobra says:

    Bravo Locus, that is one of the best articles on the current state of Marvel comics that I have read, well, since your nomination of Marvel for the CCW Golden Loeb awards. Now, if only we could get Joe Q, Bendis, Brevoort and Loeb to sit down and read this. And actually take it seriously, rather than snidely snubbing it off as they like to do with most criticism they receive.
    Also, that “Kirby’s dead” comment is one of the most ignorant statements I’ve heard in quite some time. So, bravo to whatever asshole left that gem. Fucking fanboys.

    • SMARTASS8 says:

      I know JoeyQ won’t since he never answers the question when reviewers ask him what he might do differently. I bet in his mind, every decision has been 100% genius and those that disagree are idiots who should be reading Archie Comics(not that I have anything against Archie Comics).

  3. PILKK90 says:

    wow how distrespectful, stan lee should go public and bitch about these people to get some pulicity about the kirkby dead quote

    • Smallmaniac says:

      Not if he’s still getting his checks for the characters he created. Lee has given Kirby a less than equal level of contribution to his characters. Hell will freeze over before Stan Lee says anything bad about Marvel.

  4. Armin Tamzarian says:

    Wouldn’t be the first time someone from Marvel has “screwed” a member of the Kirby family.

  5. Mitiators says:

    Well put Locusmortis. Just this year alone I’ve never heard of such shady practices in publishing. Until I hear of dramatic changes I’m done with buying Marvel comics. There are plenty of other quality titles by more reputable publishers.
    Laters Marvel.

  6. Smallmaniac says:

    I’m not a comic books historian, but it seems to me like there is a problem that needs to be fished out. Either these people created characters for these companies and somehow transferred ownership to these companies, or the creators should be compensated for the use of their characters or their families should in the case that they aren’t alive.

    What about Bill Finger? and Steve Ditko?

    • Locusmortis says:

      One thing that has to be realised about the comics business pre-1980 is that it wasn’t managed in a regular disciplined way with contracts and compensation like in just about every other publishing business. Everything was off the cuff and off the record so its sometimes hard to distinguish who did what.

      Comics came out of the pulp magazine business at the end of the depression and many of the main businessmen behind it were sort of shady. Donenfield and Leibowitz who headed up National (DC) had swindled Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson out of ownership in 1937/38 and they would repudetly stab their own mothers in the neck for an extra dollar.

      Bob kane was a decent business man so he got a decent deal but Finger got nothing. Finger, like many of the early comics creators (including Kirby) was an ideas man, not a business man.

      Martin Goodman over at Timely (Marvel) was another pulps publisher who put out “Mens Sweat” magazines like For Men Only and Swank who got into publishing comics as a sideline. Stan was a relation so he was treated ok but artists were treated like dirt.

      Regarding Steve Ditko, allegedly he’s been offered multi-million dollar settlements but he’s holding out as he dosen’t believe they fairly compensate him. Its hard to know whether Ditko really wants or cares about money though as he never gives interviews and to my knowledge he never married or had kids, he is a complete enigma.

      There are some great books out there on the history of American comics like Tales to Astonish by Ronin Ro, Kirby King of Comics by Mark Evanier, Men of Tomorrow by Gerard Jones, any of the Twomorrows publications like Back Issue, Alter Ego, The Jack Kirby Collector and more

  7. Fallows1985 says:

    well said, as you said “are they out make us hate the company even more”. I don’t know what’s going on with Marvel but the past week I’ve been comtenplating just not buying any Marvel books at all.

  8. Ironmuskrat says:

    Well said LocustMortis, excellent commentary as usual.

    Just add me to the list of people who have found Marvel’s behavior this year to be reprehensible. It is disappointing for me, having decided late last year to start collecting comics again after a long break, to see the sorry state Marvel is in right now. Growing up, Marvel was my number one comic company and I was looking forward to them being my go to guys again for comic fun. I guess it’s like going to your high school twenty year reunion and finding out all the cool kids you use to hang out with have turned into a bunch selfish, arrogant pricks.

    I am tempted to avoid Marvel all together, but that wouldn’t be fair to many of the writers and artist at Marvel that have nothing to do with this mess. I decided that I would follow three rules this year for Marvel.

    1) No event books from Marvel this year. No Seige, no Fall of the Hulks, no Doom Wars(or whatever it is being called). No special events this year from Marvel.

    2) No $3.99 books from Marvel that are 22 pages or contain reprinted crap to pad them out in size.

    3) Support only quality work from Marvel. Parker, Hickman, Fraction= Yes! Bendis and Loeb= No!

    Of course these rules are subject to change depending on any changes in behavior from the upper management of Marvel, but somehow I doubt I will be seeing that anytime in the future.

    IM

  9. Deemar says:

    *Highfive* Mortis

  10. Deemar says:

    Ironic marvel is calling their post-DarkReign the “Heroic Age”

    Nothing heroic about shitting on the King

  11. Very good post Locus. I love how comics are recently supposed to be more ‘happy’ and ‘cheerful’ yet Marvel is getting more cutthroat by the minute. I am only buying 3 (sometimes 2) books from Marvel right now:

    1. Invincible Iron Man
    2. Fantastic Four
    3. Amazing Spider-Man (ONLY when Dan Slott writes it)
    4. Whenever Agents of Atlas gets re-booted

    I made a rebuttal to Tom Brevoort on my blog so check it out if you’re interested:

    http://itsjustsomerandomgeek.blogspot.com/2010/01/my-rebuttal-to-tom-brevoort.html

  12. Matthew Guy says:

    Tony Daniel is no longer artist w/ Batman #698 yet he still is the writer.

    Matthew

    • generaldark says:

      lol yea i noticed that too! my god im still having anxiety attacks just thinking that daniel might have a part in #700. he better fucking not!!!

    • Deemar says:

      His own hands must have protested against his horrible ideas

      • Pobra says:

        Is anyone actually reading Daniels’s Batman? CBR gave the last issue a pretty good review. I refuse to believe that his run on Batman is even remotely tolerable after reading BFTC. Those CBR reviews can be a little hard to swallow sometimes.

  13. Fallows1985 says:

    I was just wondering who people would want to take over Marvel, I mean if Joe Quesada stepped down who would you see being the next Editor? Or who would you like?

  14. Has anyone heard of the one-shot coming out in April called: Captain America: Who Won’t Wield The Shield?!? I laughed when I saw that… people then looked at me funny…

  15. SMARTASS8 says:

    I just can’t believe how much my opinion has changed of Marvel. 10 years ago, they were my favorite comic company on who I spent most of my money(for 20 years straight even though I still bought books from DC, Dark Horse, and the occasional indie). Now just the very word Marvel makes me think of JoeyQ’s arrogant face(one of the most hittable faces I can think of after Osama Bin Laden & Snooki), the constant mean spiritedness/immaturity of most of the staff, Spidey making a deal with a/the devil, Hawkeye becoming a ninja, most of the former “heroes” now being portrayed as back stabbers and killers(being “realistic” doesn’t always mean a character has to be unlikable with no redeeming qualities), Moon Knight cutting a villain’s face off, Hudlin’s Black Panther, Loeb’s Hulk, Bendis’ Avengers, etc(I could keep doing this all night). I’ve dropped their books for the most part 2 years ago(I’ve read a new book here or there just to see if Parker, Gage, and pre-Reborn Brubaker were the only writers at Marvel that didn’t make me sick, bored, and/or mad), but I think I am 100% officially done with them now until some of the current people in charge leave.

    • generaldark says:

      how do you think i feel as someone who got into comics 2 years ago?? this thing scared my mind for life! i cant even beleive marvel was ever any good >_<

      • Locusmortis says:

        Marvel has been great in the past and will be in the future but it is going through a real bad patch at the moment. Still, there are some good bits, Hickman and Fraction are doing good stuff.

  16. thecimmerian says:

    To me, it feels as though the marvel universe is being held hostage. Like, if I want to read about my favorite character then I have to pay an extortion fee to do so because it’s the only way to get my hands on their comic. This is sad because a lot of it is probably going to be filled with clutter I don’t care about, badly written, and will have some tie-in to something Bendis is doing. After I read siege #1 I imagined Joe Q and his golden goose Bendis bending me over and going all finger cuffs on me while Mickey Mouse and his pals watched and laughed.

    I love the marvel universe, I really do, but it’s characters and history are being raped by ass-holes who only care about making as much money as they can by exploiting the fans connections to their favorite superheros.

    Marvel will continue to do this until we as a comics community stop buying their over priced bullshit comics. I know it’s hard, but until we do it’s just going to get worse. They keep dishing out the same ol’ shit because week after week we keep handing them our cash.

    Save a tree. Stop buying marvel’s $3.99 books.

    • Deemar says:

      “To me, it feels as though the marvel universe is being held hostage. Like, if I want to read about my favorite character then I have to pay an extortion fee to do so because it’s the only way to get my hands on their comics”

      Feel the same, Joey Q came in initially at Marvel with great ideas, but some point the power got to him.

      Bendis has way too much influence and it keeps other deserving creators from really leaving their mark on the MU. That is one of the reasons I think Robert kirkman left

  17. Morlock50 says:

    Locusmortis, this was another awesome post. You put into words my gut reaction upon hearing the news. Jack Kirby was, and always will be, the king. Many a Marvel Zombie would do well to study his art and storytelling techniques. It’s amazing that 2010 has just started, and Marvel is set to make this a year of awful bad publicity; even worse than last year.

  18. Izzy4684 says:

    I have noticed that on IGN Bendis books seem to get an unfair higher rating that any other books or companies. Maybe sites like IGN fuel Marvels practices?

  19. TheRichestManinTown says:

    His family should get paid. Jack’s comic work is what he used to make money, money that his family should inherit.

  20. Claude Parish says:

    Years ago, I was at Dallas Fantasy Fair where there was a Kirby panel. The subject was Kirby getting his art back from Marvel.
    Marvel was holding the art hostage until Jack signed away his rights to the work. They would give him his artwork back if he signed this paper that not one other artist at Marvel had to sign. They even reserved the right to take back the artwork with minimal notice.
    No respect was given to the man who created/ co-created Marvel’s stable of superheroes.

    This is just a replay of that sad episode in comics history. The fanboys acted the same back then. They just wanted their crack and didn’t care where it came from.

    As a point of interest:Attending this panel were Jack Kirby, Will Eisner, Burne Hogarth, Frank Miller and Gary Groth.

    I missed the later panel dubbed “THE SPECIAL K PANEL”. At that meeting were Kirby, Kane and Kubert.

    Marvel needs an injection of shame. We may be able to give it to them.

  21. Zcorp79 says:

    As being a long time fan of the characters of Marvel and DC, and now finally getting into reading the stories from both companies. I am just shocked at the thug tactics that Marvel is applying now to DC and the underhanded move that they are pulling on Kirby’s family. I am one that hopes that with Dinsey buying Marvel they will do a complete overhaul of the whole corparate part of Marvel, but probably not since they are still one of the top companies in the industry.

  22. kurumais says:

    i hope J or any other retailers in “the crowd” can speak to this
    my buddy tommy told me today that marvel offered big time incentives with cap reborn number 1. i cant recall the specifics but discounts on other marvel books, but now according tommy he and other stores are stuck with big stacks of this book. he said he has 100 of them sitting in the back. they put a bunch out including the joe q variant for cover price. is that the case in dreamland? marvel should take trade in on that book if thats the case.

  23. jorge says:

    i droped almost all marvel except daredevil 2.99, ghost rider hate to say because its jason arron doing a good job since he took over and thats it for mainstream marvel.

  24. kurumais says:

    is marvel really hurting the industry? now im not saying your personal enjoyment of comics but the industry as a whole. with weeks were 30+ marvel books came out at once, spidey basically going weekly, more minis the return of more and more variant covers im hearing ppl say marvel is hurting the market both here and in my local comic shop, and like those observers i inherently agreed but is it really the case? a 2% drop in todays economic climate after 8 or 9 years of growth hardly sounds like a blimp. maybe the fanboy market is sluggish catching up with our discontent. there was a very brief about how long does it take for folks to drop a book on the youtube channel and i think we ( as a whole we) are slow to do so . if you looking at numbers and yes numbers can lie marvel looks to be doing pretty darn good and the industry isnt crumbling

    http://blog.comichron.com/2010/01/comichron-analysis-comics-end-2009-down.html

    • Locusmortis says:

      Growth? are you kidding me? How can there be growth when Agents of Atlas can only sell 15k copies of a book a month? When I started getting Marvel comics (in 1988) Uncanny X-Men used to sell 250k a month and that was without any bloody “events”, how many does it sell now? Even the lowest marvel titles used to get 80k a month, now thats a top 10 title.

      The industry is in a parlous state, outside of a few marquee franchises books are struggling to hang on. The “growth” you quote is measured against 1996-99 when the industry absolutely tanked and marvel went bankrupt. If you measure the industry against the pre-speculator days, say pre-1991 then its pretty damn scary.

      I dunno how old you are Kuru but for those of use who have seen this cycle before know what will happen next, you can refuse to believe us if you want, it dosen’t stop the inexorable march of the cycle. Marvel is just like the zombies that it calls its readers, mindlessly repeating the same mistakes its made in the past.

      • Morlock50 says:

        And much like said zombies, Marvel will consume anything in it’s path in its neverending search for BRAINS!

      • kurumais says:

        read the article the numbers say the industry rebounded from the crash of the 90s
        im not saying marvel is right or wrong im saying that fans here and other sites and folks i know have been saying for months marvel is killing the golden calf but according to those numbers it doesnt look that way. again i said so far. lucus dont take this personal you know this is not an us vs them thing. again im looking at this from a business side which admittedly i know little about and im not sure where the best comic industry sources are where i would get analysislike in say a forbes or time’s business section. are marvel strategies hurting comic sales overall? from those numbers it doesnt look it. are they hurting DC sales? blackest night is big hit. marvel puts out many more books then DC have DC sales dropped? have people stopped buying superman to pay for the weekly spiderman? someone posted a nice bit of analysis, and im sorry i cant remember who, i apologize, that while marvel has put out more books they have also cancelled more books than DC. so it doesnt look like marvel is sucking fans away from DC books they like. maybe we aren’t at that stage yet maybe it will come to that im looking to see if thats happening and according to that think it doesnt look like it.
        someone at cbr wrote article a while ago about a successful comic company in the golden age. i cant remember the names but they had 4 hit crime books so publishers went to the writer/editor that was behind these books said “we got 4 hits make it 8” so the wirter/editor started putting out 8 books a month and according to the writer of the article, the quality suffered and sales dipped on the first 4 books at the same time people started buying the new books. so they had the same marketshare but 8 books instead of 4. the writer was comparing that GA company to what marvel is doing now. that was the best condemnation of marvel ive seen and im trying to see if thats what happening.

        • Armin Tamzarian says:

          The problem with flooding the market with mediocre books, rather than focusing on a smaller amount of stellar titles, is that the second those books drop even slightly below their mediocre status, all but the most rabid of fans will jump ship.

          If I’m following a stellar series, and a shitty book is released in said series, I’m not going to completely drop the entire series. I’ll just grit my teeth and wait to see what happens next.

          Where as, if I’m following a mediocre series, and a shitty book is released, that would more than likely act as the straw that broke the camels back and lead me to drop it all together.

          This is what I see as the biggest problem with Marvel today. Rather than rely on content, they’re more than willing to shove titles and characters down the consumers collective throat. Which may work for them in the short term, but once the actual content that got fans reading the books in the first place becomes less and less prevalent, people are going to question why they even bother reading the book anymore and abandon it.

          • kurumais says:

            intuitively i would agree with but what if we are both wrong? lots of folks here and that i know are saying marvel is doing wrong are there any numbers to show that? what if their business plan is actually working? my buddy told me marvel had 50% of the market share of all comics last year. thats sounds like sucessfull year. maybe the numbers lie like i said. maybe they spent X amount of dollars and made X-1 dollars in profit then 50 % of anything isnt going help them with that balance sheet.
            you guys want to say you dont like marvels content you win nothing i can say is going to change your mnd
            you guys are not going spend your money on marvel comics again you win no reason you should spend entertainment dollars where you dont want to
            you want to you hate bendis’s stuff again you win if you hate it then you hate it.
            BUT if you are saying marvel is hurting themselves business wise then show me where are the numbers? if you are saying marvel is hurting DC show me. if you are saying marvel is creating another bubble market like the 90s show me.
            thats all im saying creative content is one thing but the business side of the deal is another and like i said i dont follow the business side very well the dollars and sense profit margin of marvel or anyone else. my post showed that the gloom and doom lots of folks are predicting for marvel hasnt happened again maybe hasnt happened yet.
            i met sal buscema at a show a few years ago he was my favorite artist as a kid he said, some comic big wig, again whose name i dont remember probably marvels publisher back in the silver age told him, ” sal this is a simple business you put out a book if no one buys it you drop it you put out another one.” maybe it is that simple at marvel maybe their plan is like this “you guys dont want to buy dr voodoo no problem here’s a new captain marvel series starring noh varr you arent going to buy sword thats ok here’s a sheild mini. you aren’t going to buy agents of atlas ok we have Xfactor forever.” now you can say they all stink and a waste of time and maybe they are but do the dollars and sense back you up?
            a lot of this reminds of something a couple of guys on my local sports talk radio say all the time ” fans always care more then the players” and i think that true for fans its different. again m point is lots of fans arent talking about just the creative side the are talking business side im just trying to find out whats going on the business side.

  25. Locusmortis says:

    Kuru, we’ve seen this happen before in the 70’s and 90’s, the only time Marvel didn’t go down this road was when Jim Shooter was in charge, if only Marvel would rehire him.

    • kurumais says:

      I can see your point to an extent the rise in prices the frequency in variant covers smacks of trouble. The 90s bubble was fueled by speculators both fans and retailers who bought huge supplies thinking they would make a profit down the line. I don’t see that happening today, especially on the retailers side. The folks in the comic store business today are the survivors of the 90s bubble bursting and the decimation of its wake. Shops try to play it close to vest as possible with stock , using customer pull lists and such to gage demad. Retailers aren’t going to let themselves go down that road again.
      As for the 70s the rise in prices was certainly a factor but most writers attribute the move from local candy store, drug stores, and newsstands to the comic book specialty shop as a more prominent factor in the shrinking customer base.

      • Locusmortis says:

        The thing you don’t seem to factor in is that there is so many less comic book buyers not than there was 15, 20, 25, 30 years ago that when a portion of the fanbase gets cheesed off by all the mediocre product and over saturated characters then thats a huge loss for the books and for retailers.

        A book losing 5000 readers in 1990 wouldn’t be too big a deal but a book losing 5000 readers now can be 10-20% of it circulation.

        On the retailers side I know of retailers who have been put in a financial hole because of subscribers abandoning pull lists, people who bought 50-60 titles a month and variant covers just quitting because the financial stress that marvel in particular is putting fans under.

        You can’t keeping pushing bad value for money too far, even the zombies have a breaking point, especially now with the weak economic climate.

  26. Locusmortis says:

    Also, if Marvels sales stay the same or go up it just proves my point that there are enough retarded fanboys out there to justify Marvels putting out badly written pandering shit and treating older creators like dirt.

  27. kurumais says:

    you are right i didnt factor either a 10 to 20 % loss or your acquaintances predicament im sorry about their losses i was working off the comic chronicles numbers of a 2% drop across the board and a cursory websearch for articles dealing with current state of comic sales and a searches for a marvel back lash

  28. Comicsketch says:

    its just shocking the way marvel are treating the Kirby family. im also shocked by the marvel readers reactions. im especialy surprised at those who call themselves “marvel Zombies”

    by being a marvel zombie wouldnt that suggest that you would be devoted to all things marvel? would that not include a devotion to the work of one of thier greatest creators, i believe that the kirby family are not after owning the characters that he helped to create but just want his name on the modern books of his characters as an original creator.

    as a “marvel Zombie” in the sence i suggested above is that not a good thing?

    therefor i would suggest that those who proudly call themselves “marvel Zombies” and then slam kirby and his family are not what they label themselves. they are just small minded angry little keyboard gangsters who have no respect, except for creators who cant actualy create

  29. Claude Parish says:

    I’m sensing an anti “Marvel zombie” vibe here. Goooooood!

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