A CCW Op-Ed: Here We Go Again

Posted: March 19, 2010 in CCW OpEd, Marvel, Opinion, WTF
Tags: , , ,

Here are some excerpts from the dialogue between Bullseye and Lindy Reynolds (Sentry’s wife) that take place before the above page in Dark Avengers #15. Words in bold are also in bold in the comic.

BE: I always wondered what he (The Sentry) sees in you?
LR: I’m sorry?
BE: Your husband. He’s almost a God…and you–you’re kind of, well, frumpy is the best word I can think of.
LR: What?
BE: I mean, he can have anybody. I mean, I can have anybody. And all I do is kill people. Imagine the ass he is missing out on because he’s married to you. And look at you. Do you even own a brush? Or a mirror?
LR: Get back.
BE: I mean, we all know your husband is nuts. But marrying you when he could be dating supermodels from numerous planets…now that is nuts.

Lindy slaps Bullseye in the face.

BE: Thank you.

Bullseye grabs Lindy by the throat.

LR: NOOOOOO!!!

And then you see the page above.

It wasn’t enough that Lindy was verbally and psychologically abused by the Void in issue #13 but now she gets verbally abused by Bullseye…right before he chokes the life from her. And Brian Bendis, being the great writer he is, wants you, the reader, to slowly and silently watch her die right in front of your fanboy eyes. In order to, what, feel her pain? To make you feel guilty? Huh…now that I think about it, ya, Marvel fanboys should feel guilty about this.

Is it that far fetched of an idea that Marvel fanboys did in fact kill Lindy Reynolds themselves or at the very least aided in her death? Is that why Bendis used that P.O.V. shot? That P.O.V. shot could also be seen as the writer putting himself in the shoes of the villain though, can’t it? Maybe to fulfill some sort of pathetic, self empowering fantasy? Do you think I have gone too far by making those observations? Well, Brian Michael Bendis has had a long track record for having obscene amounts of misogyny in his comics…and his fans love it. (Don’t know what I’m talking about? Click here for a refresher) And yet very few people call Bendis out on his disgusting treatment of female Marvel characters. And by not causing a stink and rewarding Bendis with high sale counts of his comics the fanboys are sending Marvel a message: Brian Michael Bendis can do no wrong. And so Bendis seems to be free from any editorial restraints so this kind of horseshit just continues to happen over and over and over again. It may have well HAD been the hands of the fanboys around Lindy’s throat.

So, why exactly did Lindy Reynolds die? Well, besides the fact that comics are just too damn boring? It was because Bob Reynolds (The Sentry) loved her…and that was it. Norman Osborn saw this as an obstacle he needed to overcome to fully be in control of the Sentry so Osborn had Bullseye kill her. Couple that with the fact that Lindy is not a superhero, is just an average woman in the Marvel universe and it makes her death that much more fucking…tragic, doesn’t it? To bad it really didn’t feel that way. Because Bendis has an affinity for killing or physically beating down his female characters (with the use of his male characters) this just feels like more his his sensationalistic bullshit.

Domestic violence is an all too real problem. At no point ever does Bendis show the repercussions of domestic violence, he just seems to revel in it while turning on the Marvel fanboys. It also seems to send the message to his (mostly) male fanbase that it is acceptable to behave in this manner especially when women are the ones who are constantly being assaulted by men. Isolated instances of violence toward men or women in comics is one thing but when a writer completely crosses the line time and time again (for what I think are personal reasons) it becomes a problem that this industry doesn’t need or should it tolerate.

J.

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Comments
  1. Sparky says:

    WOW….This articel didn’t happen to mention how Lindy had tried to kill her husband…

    • Actually I linked to a review that does mention that but I guess you were too lazy to read that, huh? Wouldn’t have helped your argument at all I guess. Also, Sentry is an evil and crazy fuck. I don’t blame ANYONE for trying to kill him.

      I also love that you are appalled by the fact that a normal woman tried to kill her godlike husband and that it’s comparable to what happened in this issue.

      You do realize that women can fight back is domestic abuse situations, right? Or were you not aware that they are “allowed” to do that?

      J.

    • Ironmuskrat says:

      So your saying she had it coming then? That she deserved what she got from Bulleye because she tried to kill The Sentry? Or she deserved what she got from the Sentry/Void from shooting the Sentry?

  2. Chris says:

    Isn’t that what Bullseye does all the time? If it was out of character unnecessary violence then you’d be alright to get annoyed. But Bullseye being told to kill someone and then doing it seems “normal” to me.

    PS I haven’t seen the bit you referenced between the Void and Lindy Reynolds, so I’m only talking about those Bullseye panels.

    • “Bullseye does this all the time” is the excuse I believe that Bendis will hide behind and absolve him of any wrong doing. I’m glad you think that just because it is in character that it makes it ok. Did you not read the part where I talk about Bendis doing this time and time again? If it was his fist instance of violence against women I don;t think I would be annoyed by it so much.

      J.

      • Morlock50 says:

        This is the big fanboy arguement. “But this character is evil, man! Evil people do evil things. This makes Bullseye even more evil! Isn’t that awesome?! I’m so glad that my comics have shocks in them!! Not like that boring Lee/Kirby horseshit!”

    • Bullseye also killed a female reporter by shoving a pen through her eye into her brain in the recent ‘Hawkeye’ mini-series. Is it out of character? No. But the point that Jose is trying to make that all to often it appears that BMB has women portrayed as victims in his books and there is NO CONSEQUENCE to the actions.

      The amount of violence towards women in comics seems to have gotten out of hand lately. And quite frankly, I’m sick of it.

      You DON’T NEED TO KILL WOMEN to make GOOD COMICS!

      Elliott

      • Dan Griffin says:

        The Irony is that this is the year of Woman for Marvel and yet shit like this is still going on.

        • Matthew Guy says:

          Maybe Bendis needs a Marvel “sensitivity creative writing” course.

          Matthew

          • SMARTASS8 says:

            I thought Bendis was the new Rob Liefeld(just wait a few years and see how many people are still singing his praises) but maybe he’s the new Dave Sim.

    • Chris says:

      Whoa, a CCW team up rebuttal! I wasn’t trying to defend Brian Bendis or make a sweeping statement that “killing women is fine!”. I was just trying to say that comics writers should be allowed to depict violence.

      Maybe I just haven’t read enougb Bendis (I’ve only read Alias) or mainstream DC/Marvel books to know of the other times these things have happened. And as someone who has never experience domestic violence of any level I don’t believe that a comic could ever influence me to commit such an act. But I do understand that some people could be – I assume the target market for Avenger’s books is teens and if you wanted an easy to influence group that would be the one to pick.

      To clarify my original point Incontext/Incharacter Violence – OK // Serial Misogyny = Bad

  3. Smallmaniac says:

    Great piece Jose. Why anyone would find this appealing or creative is beyond me. These Marvel zombies must get off on this kind of garbage. It’s truly sad to see how far the “House of Ideas” has fallen. There’s this “boys club” mentality where girls have “cooties” and can be treated however the boys see fit. Truly appalling and disgraceful to the once good name of Marvel Comics.

  4. Dan Griffin says:

    Did Bullseye cum after he killed her…i mean WTF with “ah”. Gross.

    • Morlock50 says:

      I was thinking the same thing when I first saw this. There’s something about the POV choking panels and Bullseye’s reaction that feels “sexualized”. Like a Friday the 13th movie where Jason kills a girl in the shower or when she’s skinny-dipping. Pretty fucking sick. I was just reading some of Gardner Fox JLA stories before I logged on tonight. That silver age stuff may have been campy and naive, but I would take that over this “sophisticated” storytelling any day of the week.

  5. AvS says:

    I don’t read any Bendis. I don’t plan on starting. Lois Lane should get a restraining order out on Bendis just to play it safe. The separation between the publishers might not be enough.

  6. Great guys thanks for reminding me of that scene… lol just kidding 🙂

    I read DA#15 in my LCS and right after I read that page that’s shown I stopped reading it. I actually tossed the copy of the book (the new comics at my LCS are spread out across some boxes of old comic books),but being the nice person I am I put it back in its original place.

    Also a story that happened that same day is some guy walked in and bought EVERYTHING that had the Siege banner on it and nothing else. Even that waste of a comic Siege: Director’s Cut. It was scary. The vendors were also talking about how a guy had 10 copies of the Siege#3 Deadpool variant. 10 copies!!! I couldn’t tell if they were joking or not…

  7. Jeremy says:

    Not to sound like a Marvel Zombie, but Bendis has killed men too. Ares, Hawkeye (twice), Carnage, Jarvis Skrull, Antman, a bunch of mutants during House of M… People die ALL the time in comics. At least ge hasn’t killed anyone for realz. I do not mean to say I don’t see your POV.
    Also you should look at what Bendis has done for some women too. He brought Spider-Woman and Mockingbird back.
    I hope you don’t think I am some sexist for this little schpeel. I am just trying to bring up different points of view.

    • I do not think you are sexist in the least and you do bring up valid points. It just seems that when violence is directed at female characters it is always more gruesome and unsettling, doesn’t it? Plus Lindy wasn’t even a superhero, she was just a normal woman. To depict what happened to her in such a vile manner is just too fucking distasteful for words.

      Also, these things are happening in Marvel comics. Don’t really think that it is the proper venue to sort out whatever issues he has.

      J.

      • SMARTASS8 says:

        It just kills me that Marvel and some of its writers act like they are taking the high road when it comes to what they don’t let in their books. It sounds good until you see what they do let go into their books. If this bothers me at 34, it must really mess with some little kids that happen to read it(that is if they aren’t numb to stuff like this already).

  8. tomstewdevine says:

    This does suck, I mean its probably one of the most read books out of all marvel stuff coming out, and it is probably read by people of all ages. I feel like Bendis is just being a lazy writer, if you want to kill someone, male or female, you better have got the reader emotionally ready for it by making you ether love or hate this person. but when you kill a side character to shock or piss off your reader its like you ran out of good stories so you have to revert back to some big shock that lets you get away with finishing a comic without having to come up with something thought out and smartly written. You just get a comic that sucks. i.e. All bendis work within marvel.

  9. generaldark says:

    jesus that one page was disturbing enough.

  10. SMARTASS8 says:

    I know what Bullseye did to Elektra, but has he always been the type of bad guy who kills everyone he meets? When I read Ellis’ first Thunderbolts issue and it had Bullseye talking about killing a father & son for no reason, it made me furious that this guy was one of the protagonists of that book. I also felt ill flipping through the first issue of his recent “Hawkeye” mini where he stabbed a woman in the eye with a pen. It seems like he’s the new Cletus Cassidy since Bendis killed the old one(it wasn’t germane to the storyline, it was just because he didn’t like him; what an asshat).

  11. Rob F says:

    In reading the comments, I have to say I agree with people that it does make sense that Bullseye would kill her. The problem I have is how many panels it takes to depict her slipping away. Back in the good old days, a supervillain would just shot/punch/drop off a building and that would be the end of it. I guess nowadays with all the violence in movies and tv Bendis doesn’t think he can satiate the audiences desire for blood unless it’s as graphic as possible.

    As to the repercussions for the violence towards women, I can see Bullseye getting his…but what will happen is that he’ll likely be torn in half by the Sentry in a bloodbath. Then again, that’s a critique I’ve had of comics all along: they don’t take death very seriously. Yes, I know that people come and go and characters can return from the dead at a drop of a hat but in reality death impacts us in real and lasting ways. This is another instance of Marvel trivializing murder because the person killed isn’t important to the overall Marvel universe. I could even picture the Zombies getting more militant if Bullseye was killed…

    • You are absolutely right. No Marvel fanboy is going top miss Lindy Reynolds but if Bullseye got his comeuppances Marvel would have a shitstorm on their hands with all the fanboy backlash. It really is a sad state of affairs.

      J.

  12. Claude Parish says:

    I’ve sworn off all Marvel comics. Forever.
    My local vendor knows why.
    If this is the new standard for this company, they should give up the name Marvel and just call the company “Lowest Common Denominator” comics.
    Good-bye, Marvel.
    Thanks for saving me the money I would have spent on your ‘product’ in the future.
    DC isn’t much better. Wait until someone rapes and murders Supergirl’s mom.
    Marvel ruined the party for me.Can DC be far behind?

    • heckimlistening says:

      No more Marvel for me either. I held out and still bought my Daredevil (out of habit mostly) but I can’t support this company any longer.

    • I think the no more marvel books thing is a bit too drastic. I was about to do that too, but I didn’t want to punish the few awesome creators and few awesome books that Marvel has like Invincible Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Agents of Atlas, and Dan Slott’s ASM.

      But this is just my opinion. You guys do what you want to.

  13. Mike F says:

    It REALLY fucking bothers me to see some real authentic characters get completely misused by modern writers. I don’t care how good his previous works were, how good could they be to excuse such shit work now?

    Sorry if I sound harsh… I just hate wasting my money. Bendis, IDK what to say to you. The last year has been really sad >:|

  14. Mitiators says:

    Bendis’s Bullseye is just flat out boring. All he does is talk about getting ass or killing women. Its not cunning or evil, its just boring.
    Call me old fashion but I liked it when women were saved in comics instead of raped and tortured for no reason.

  15. David says:

    Hey don’t give up on everything in Marvel…Tune into DoomWar and you can see a whole bunch of powerful, strong, well used Woman…From Shuri to Storm to the Dora Milaje.

    As a man who grew up with his Dad beating his mom, even looping belts around her neck to choke her out seeing this and the almost glorifying nature of it is disturbing….also maybe it would be more bearable if you knew these a-holes were going to have repercussions for there actions….but no, just like the countless perpetrators of women they get off scott free. Then its celebrated in the “locker room”

    Can BE visit the Dora Milaje and try to choke one of them out next??? That would be fun.

  16. denialdtm says:

    long time reader first time poster but anyway i stopped reading Bendis’ 616 stuff along time ago, but i like some of his ultimate stuff like spider-man…not so much ultimate enemy though. Ultimate spider-man is one of the series that got me into comics, and since i started i like to look at the history of comics and stories of old like the silver age stuff.

    And thats the thing i notice now with newer comics, its playing to a newer audience but instead of embracing what is an established continuity and how fun the medium is. Its as many have said before taken a sencless shift into some of the elements that well shouldnt be there.
    Im all for darker stories like Watchmen and Locke & key and thats why Marvel made “Icon” and “Marvel Knights”. So to see such elements in mainstream stories is redundent and pointless it’s like sexy fan service theres the internet for that lol sorry.

    ((NOTE: I dont know whats happening in the comics and i’m making this up from the article’s retelling)) BTW wouldnt it have been ten times cooler if Lindy stabbed bullseye and jumped out of the plane to save herself and he’d be like oh %^&$. Norman would get pissed and she can try helping the new avengers all to sort of “save the sentry” since hes insane and reveal what she knows about the dark avengers. drama thats better for the long run in my opinion but then again i dont write comics… neither does MARVEL \|\bahzing/|/ i joke i joke!!

  17. ullar says:

    I really don’t see the problem with this. Now, I have noticed that at times Bendis uses violence against women to fufil some power-control fantasy (Tigra beating), but in this instance it’s just evil men doing evil things.

    • tomstewdevine says:

      Oh come on. Unlike a lot of people on this board I like some of Bendis’s stuff, I like Powers, I liked Jinx, and Torso, but this is just lazy writing. When marvel gives someone this amount of control with there characters, there has to be a respect for them, But in these Bendis marvel books, that seems to be lacking.

      • ullar says:

        I am not a Bendis fanboy at all, but at the same time graphic violence in art isn’t necessarily misogynistic. I have seen films and read novels with violence against women and they are not called misogynistic, but powerful. I think the reason comics can’t do this is some people feel it’s a male fantasy being fulfilled, that may be the case but I haven’t read this comic or plan to but from what I’ve seen it’s in character for Bullseye, a sadist, to reveal in choking the life out of another human being.

  18. Venom829 says:

    On the bright side, at least there’s only one issue left of this shit series 🙂

  19. I am so fed up with all of this bullshit that I’m going to write a post about this on my blog. It’s unbelieveable that this crap sells and hardly anybody calls Bendis out on it.

  20. vegedge says:

    to be honest bendis always portrays his women in a negative light.
    they are always weak, mentally unstable, using sexuality as a way to be manipulative.

    while women are sometimes heroes, they always get fucked over to make the male characters appear more extreme. either positivly or negatively.

    i have been trying to think of comics where females are shown as equals. drawn as such and not just eye candy.actual characters who are involved and important and not just background.
    hellboy and bprd come to mind. and i thought of concrete and madman. but later realized both allred and paul chadwick only draw women as pin up models and usually damsels in distress as well.

    even comics like invincible which have strong female heroes still give them costumes without pants and fill them with sexual jokes on the females expense. its like with ever step comics takes we take one back. women are our equals. comics have always been ahead of the curve on social positions(probally because most of us readers, writers are apart of that minority who have felt overcasted by everyone else and end up caring deeply for social problems.) but the comic world just cant seem to shake this bullshit or these mother fucks like bendis, mark millar who think the only way to shock is too degrade a representation of a female. yeah they are fictional people.

    marvel says they do not show sexual violence in comics. what the hell do they thing that is they do show. its still sexual violence, its a male dominating a female. its not in your face rape but its underlying(hardly) and really makes me sick.

    go read some ms marvel or powergirl.. hope you can see those nipples on those nice side shots,that are subtle but we have all seen them. or her belly button through he costume that magically actually goes inside of her its so tight.

  21. cballsack says:

    The issue is not that she died, but how, and more specifically, how it was depicted. I completely agree with the person above that the way this death is portrayed was sexualized, especially with the “ah” afterward. Can Bendis be any less subtle?

    Bullseye killing people is nothing new. The image of his weapon driving through Elektra’s chest is one of the most memorable panels in comic books. That panel worked because of how rare the depiction of ultra-realistic violence was. Nowadays that’s just another standard issue of Marvel.

    • vegedge says:

      exactly. violence on the rare occasion in a comic can become that moment that lasts, that crushes you while reading and really makes you feel something. but when done in every issue, its wasted and becames a catch phrase of what it was originally.

    • ...dj...sweet says:

      Miller himself said that the image of Bullseye sticking her Sai threw Elektra was symbolic of a murder/rape. That was subtle. This is blatantly sexualized and about as subtle as a Saw movie.

  22. DidioForever says:

    I’m actually a fan of Bullseye, and all I’m thinking is; ‘Why the hell would Bullseye strangle a woman like that when all he usually needs is a cocktail stick or a spoon?”

    Stupid Bendis.

  23. DidioForever says:

    In all honesty, I used to love Bendis but stopped reading anything by him after forking out so much money for all those shitty Secret Invasionn tie-ins.

    I don’t know how any writer could feel comfortable with himself passing that kind of trite filler off as actual work.

    Ocassionally I dip my toe in what’s going on (It’s always the art that pulls me in) but I’m always rewarded with crap like ‘Avengers: The List’, which had Clint Barton attempt to take Osborn out with a sawn off shotgun….?????

    I don’t get how anyone can still be sucking this shit up from him, and I speak as someone who got INTO the Avengers via Bendis.

    PLEASE people stop buying this crap, it’s only making him worse

  24. assfax says:

    Really glad I didn’t read Dark Avengers this week. To do a scene like that you really have to commit more to the situation than some bullshit quasi-OMD logic. You have to be a hell of a storyteller to pull this off and be justified in doing so. BMB seems to just throw shit like this in to fill space between endless dinner table conversation scenes. Yes, villains can kill but usually it’s done as a crescendo, not something you go to commercial break after. As of right now, Lindy died and never meant anything in this book other than doin’ that plot dump a few issues back.

  25. Deemar says:

    What I miss?

    lol

  26. DidioForever says:

    And it continues the trend of Bendis coming along and completely mangling other people’s creations – RECENT creations – out of recognition. The original Sentry mini by Jenkins was pretty damn good… And the Hood…Gawdamnit even MARVEL BOY! Why does he need to do this shit all the time? If he really needs to fudge these characters into the “overall story-hole why can’t he just create some of his own characters to mangle?

    Grrr

  27. Venom829 says:

    I found somewhere that someone said this about this shot:” I like it. It shows Bullseye as he should be portrayed – a merciless sadist. I’m glad Bendis didn’t water this down. As for it being disturbing – I’m fairly sure it’s supposed to be. ” Wow, another Mark Millar like comment, if you know what I mean.

    • Morlock50 says:

      Disturbing imagery. Exactly what I want when I read superhero comics. It’s like Bendis keeps taking a shit in my sandbox. Thank god he doesn’t write for DC.

      • DidioForever says:

        Personally I haven’t got a problem with violence or ‘disturbing imagery’ in superhero comics as a whole. Alan Moore has put some pretty nasty stuff out there, but proved that when done well it can be very effective and emotionally resonating…And it’s 2010, you know? Comics should evolve with the times, shouldn’t they?

        (the ‘kids not reading comics anymore’ VS ‘mature content in comics’ debate is another topic!)

        But Bendis just fails at getting these sequences to resonanate so hard and so often, which could be the problem.

        It’s like watching a gorn movie, the ‘thought’ of watching the film is about ten times more disturbing than the actual process of watching it. You get to a certain point in any of those films and it becomes either comedic or ineffective, lame indulgence. It’s just really shitty, hackish writing and Marevel/readers really need to stop rewarding these people for their non-efforts.

        • vegedge says:

          and alan moore was the first one to realize it was a negative thing. he was trying to do something original and it probally has been the most aped aspect of comics since.

          thats why he tried going back and doing those silverage like comics. he wanted to see the people ripping off of him again follow him into taking a step back.

        • Morlock50 says:

          Alan Moore is not a good example to bring up. No question of his writing talent, but I really hate alot of his stuff, from Watchmen to Killing Joke to From Hell, I think his writing is tremendously overrated considering how influencial it is. You see his influence in the kind of crap depicted in the OP. (Thanks alot, Alan). I feel like we’re just a few months away from an on-panel rape scene of a superheroine in a Marvel book. Then the zombies will say “I’m glad Bendis didn’t water down the rape scene”.

  28. PILKK90 says:

    i think ill just keep reading witchblade to see acutual female heroes that arent abused all the time

  29. DidioForever says:

    Another thing I can’t stand – copy and pasted panels. What does showing two of the same thing do for the story? Nothing. And people pay an extra dollar for this priveledge.

  30. hhbx says:

    Not to be a cynical smartass, but this is what? The second or third time he’s killed her off. He’s done it before and I can’t help but not care about it. When it was done before it maybe had a little meaning if you argued long or hard about it, otherwise it felt very much like a classic WIR situation.
    Which all speaks to how I am now when Bendis does this kind of shit, he’s just done it so much over time that I can’t bring any sort of outrage to the table since I don’t care one way or another anymore. It’s sort of like the long time addict, you try to say something and do something to stop it at first because you care, but when it keeps happening over and over again one just eventually just throws up their arms and says, “fuck him.”

  31. arp*10 says:

    The scene in question, in my opinion, was a powerfully tragic one, maybe more. Lindy spends all herdhays couped up in a 100 plus story tower in constant fear of her unstable godly hunsband to only be killed when she barely catches a breath of relief by non other Marvels premier sadistic murderous bastard, Bullseye. It’s normally not my place to choose the position of dissent, but in this instance I must disagree with appears to be the preponderence of you. The scene works for it pulls at your emotions and makes you feel something regardless of what you’re feeling. It works. But, you know, that just me.

  32. Cole says:

    I don’t tend to get offended by things in comics, and this is no different. To me, at the very least, comics are meant to be entertaining. If I’m not entertained, oh well. But I’m not offended by this because Bullseye has killed women before. He’s a son of a bitch murderer, so I’m not sure why people are shocked he choked a character like this. I suppose it’s graphic in the way it’s depicted, but whatever, that’s their call. I don’t think it’s meant to be condoning or celebrating violence against women…in fact to me it shows the harshness and cruelty of it, it lingers on it to show you the reality and, well, violence of it. I also don’t see how it’s any more violent than when the Joker beat the shit out of a child with a crowbar and blew his ass up.

    Also, if we’re going to complain about this in comics, why not movies? I don’t recall anyone getting upset over Cristoph Waltz choking Diane Kruger to bitter death in Inglourious Basterds, in a scene FAR more violent than this. In fact, not only did people not complain, they APPLAUDED him. We gave Waltz the highest award an actor can receive for choking a woman. And why? Because he was a cool character who was well written, because he was a well played bad guy, and that’s what his character does. I feel, killing women, is something Bullseye would do, because it’s despicable.

    • Morlock50 says:

      Again, as others have pointed out, it’s not simply that a woman was killed in this scene, but the way it is depicted that has posters here upset. And the fact that Bendis has done this over, and over, again in the Avengers line. If this was the first intance of him depicting violence against women, then we would be having a different conversation. But you can’t look at this in isolation when we’ve had the Tigra beating, the Morgan Ley Fay decapitation, Luke Cage booting Electra skrull in the vagina, and a number of other scenes. That’s why Jose titled this “Here We Go Again”.

      • Cole says:

        Ehh…I remember Tigre getting beat, but then doesn’t she get back at her assailants hard? Mogan Le Fey came back in like a page, plus she’s an evil bitch, so I really don’t care if her head is ripped off. And I also really don’t care if a Skrull gets kicked in the vagina, they’re not even human, they probably don’t have the same organs as us, let alone a pussy. I’m not an expert on Skrull lore, I don’t know if they’re explicitly male or female or something else, but I just can’t get worked up over someone kicking an alien in the groin. Anyways they did kidnap his baby.

        • Morlock50 says:

          I can’t wait until Lindy rises up like a Blackest Night zombie and rips
          Bullseye’s heart out. I have to say though that I think you missed my point
          completely. The fact that Tigre got back at her attackers doesn’t mean that it
          justifies Bendis from putting the beat-down/videotape scene in the first place.
          And if it’s okay to show violence against female supervillians, then that just
          gives the writer an excuse to show more violent shit. As I said in an earlier
          post, I read superhero comics to escape the nightly news, not to be reminded that
          rape and murder exist in the real world.

          • Damn it, Morlock. Your rational thinking, common sense and great set of moral values have no place on the internet. 🙂

            In all seriousness though, I would like to thank you for everything you have written and shared on this thread. Those of us who “know better” really do appreciate it my friend.

            J.

            • Morlock50 says:

              Hey, I appreciate the compliment Jose. But I also have to thank you and Elliot for opening my eyes to these issues in comics.

  33. SMARTASS8 says:

    Imo, it seems worse since not only was Lindy not killed during a battle, she isn’t even a superhero(like Elektra & Robin were). It also wasn’t just a murder(although Bullseye killing the woman with a pen in his “Hawkeye” mini and his confession to killing a father & son in Ellis’ Thunderbolts bothered me as well), it was emotional torture as well involving a woman who wasn’t very stable to begin with. As for Inglourious Basterds, we expect violence from Tarantino and an R-Rated movie involving Nazis. Superhero comics were once known for using fatal violence sparingly. When used, not only was it shocking. it didn’t linger on said violence like a serial killer looking at crime scene photos. Marvel AND DC have changed that standard while still acknowledging that kids read comics. I wouldn’t want a small child to read Dark Avengers #15 or Identity Crisis #1.

    • Venom829 says:

      In Ingl;orious Basterds, the 2 women in the movie both had theie characters layed out well and established, so you had an emotional connection. Lindy Reyonlds, who the heck cares, the most disturbing one I can remember is Identity Crisis #1. That literally made we weak, and want to puke.

  34. Luiz de Mello says:

    To be fair all this violence per se doesn’t bother. What bothers me is that it serves no purpose story wise, it is there solely for shock value and nothing else. If we pick some books like Watchmen or the Killing Joke there is violence, yes, but it is there for a purpose. They mean something deeper than a pseudo realism and shocking scenes. It may be revolting, but it tells us the story too.

    Lindy’s death and many other scenes of violence against woman (or even against other characters) under Bendis & co. has no purpose in the story, just shock and awe. Ask a fanboy, or a casual reader, some years from now if they remember a book where Bullseye chokes a woman on a chopper hovering the sea and then toss her dead body on the water. I bet that most of them won’t remember it. And all these scenes do not even really increase the fanbase, people don’t get real emotions from it so there is no real attachment. They get a shock, a scare, some a reflexive rage against it (what is different from the real emotion of rage) and that is all. Really, what message did Lindy’s death bring us? Bullseye kills for fun? We already knew it very well. Sentry is a nutshell? ‘Seven years in the making’ seems to mean ‘seven years, or actually a bit more, of telling us that the Sentry is a nutshell with a lot of power that no one, not even the writer, has an idea of how much it is’, so nothing to gain here either.

    I watched the last video (3.32) on the tube and I guess that is why some of us do get upset with this violence, we are aware of the behind the scenes. Some of us are writers, some just readers that have learned how things work (good critics), and we all read a book and see more clearly the meaning behind the images and words there. Violence without a justification is gross and despicable, to say the least, and that is what we see on those book, of course it upsets us.

  35. Randy Siplon says:

    If it were Sarah Palin being choked out and thrown from a helicopter would you have the same problem? I got you there, hehe.

  36. WASTED POTENTIAL 616 says:

    Wow,at the risk of being VERY unpopular,im amazed at peoples reaction to this,or there overreaction to this.People are reading into this far to much.I thought this was a very well done,powerful scene.If some of you watched my review of this im now worried i mite get linched(well not to worry no one watches my videos)
    Ok well where to start,well the death was relevant to the story,Lindy was the Sentry’s last/only link to humanity,her death pushes him over the edge,allowing him to be the full villain he becomes for the Seige story line.Despite always being ‘crazy’ he was a hero,who had saved the world/many people through out his time as a superhuman as depicted in the Sentry mini and maxi series.Her death makes his turn to a villain complete as well as the domanance of the void personality.
    The scene it self is very cruel,and nasty but i do beleive it has relivence.The terms psycho killer and murderer have been used in comics for years,this scence shows us what one really is,cruel and sadistic,a truly repulsive human being,not a character to be admired and not one that will change sides and become some kind of anti-hero,as like what was atempted with Sabretooth(although that idea was later droped).
    When i read this scene i didnt think ‘cool’,i was sickened and creeped out by it,but that is the point.This is why the heroes e.g Clint Barton are so up in arms over the whole dark reign situation,the fact that Norman Osborn has put animals like Bullseye in a superhero’s costume,it has become a perversion of every thing they stand for.We as an audiance are surposed to be discusted,it shows us just how wrong Norman Osborn is.
    Ok,the way she was killed.Well she was not beaten or raped(thank God),ther was no blood or gore,but done in a very sinister way,which left a shiver up my spine.
    Also honestly i did not think the “Aw” was intended to be sexual,i didnt think so when i read it.i thought it was just a cruel fake sympathy responce.
    I also do not think Bendis’depiction of women is always sexist.Doom calling Ms Marvel a cow and whore,he always insults people,the term Whore came over a bit strong but i do not think it warrants him beind labled sexist.
    He hasnt shown women as strong characters?What about when the female cast members save clint?What about when SpiderWoman(even tho she turned out to be a skrull)took out Wolverine in issue 3,or better yet when Jessica Jones leaves her husband,who she still loves,for the protection and well being of her child,if we are going to make paralells with domestic violence,it take s great strength to leave a partner for the wellbeing of there child(not that im saying cage was violent but she felt she was taking her child out of a violent enviroment)

    Any way i think ive babbled on long enough,please excuse the bad gramer and spelling,its abot four in the morning over here in the U.K.

    Look i do think Bendis does have a lot of talent but is also very flawed,i just think its a bit strong accusing him of being sexist and having self empowering fantisies.

    Also we have to be very carful with cencorship

    Ok thats me done for now,Jesus i really when on didnt i,sorry guys,just felt i had to play devils advercate(again)

    • Though, I don’t agree with you Wasted Potential, I do respect your opinion. Thanks for putting some thought into your comment instead of just “yelling” at people do don’t see the situation the same as you. Playing devil’s advocate is something I welcome on here as long as the personal remains respectful to everyone else. Thanks again.

      J.

    • agent42q says:

      Actually I gotta say thanks for putting that up.

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