LAST RANTS! The CCW*TV podcast conclusion!

Posted: March 29, 2010 in Better Late Than Never Review, CCW Rant Review, CCW Review, CCW TV, Marvel
Tags: , ,

Hey folks, Elliott here!  Just an FYI, Jose and I got together yesterday to record some new segments.  Reviewing the video, I think they came out okay despite the fact that I was sick with a head cold and Jose was trying to keep from catching my bug.  I’ll try to have the first segment up by tomorrow.  But before then, you’ll DEFINITELY want to listen to our LAST RANT from last week wherein Jose and I take a look at SIEGE #3 and “How To Break Into Comics the Marvel Way.”  It is, by far, one of my favorite rants yet:

http://www.archive.org/details/CcwtvEpisodeThreeLastRantsOrRevengeOfThePodcast

and here are links to the first two podcasts in case you missed them:

http://www.archive.org/details/CcwtvEpisodeOneThePhantomPodcast

http://www.archive.org/details/CcwtvEpisodeTwoAttackOfThePodcast

Enjoy!

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Comments
  1. Mike F says:

    Great reviews guys.

    I admire JMS for leaving the Thor title. EVEN if he stayed yeah the Thor comics would stay good, but whats the point when your good comics are surrounded by an ass event? I’m just happy I took Bendis off my list. (But I’m hoping to check out Torso soon.)

  2. Mike F says:

    If I could I’d nominate this segment. Elliot your words are so true. Heroes are there for a reason. But, with this “heroic age” coming, hopefully it will end with a high note. I have hope.

    • tomstewdevine says:

      I’m glad you have hope, Mike F, because I don’t. I have a good feeling this Heroic age will last about 3-4 months, then it will be back to business as usual. Man I hope I’m wrong though.

      • Mike F says:

        I kinda agree with you. But with strong workers like Brubaker, Fraction, Gage, and Malberry, I think there’s a good chance the light will shine thru.

        However we have the gruesome 3 that will be hard to take down. I think Nemesis has really done Millar out. Honest. Enough people are starting to see he’s a fucking hack. As for Loeb, well, maybe, ehhh. But Bendis? Yeah, he’ll just be a good reminder of what NOT to buy 🙂

  3. arp*10 says:

    LMAO!!!!!! Nice analogy, Jose.

    • tomstewdevine says:

      agreed, I burts out laughing when i heard it.

      • SMARTASS8 says:

        I’m happy that we didn’t have a video to go along with Jose’s analogy(in case he used any hand gestures). As it was, just the thought of Bendis touching me anywhere made me have to take my second shower of the day just to feel clean again. Echhhh!!!

  4. Pobra says:

    Some fine ranting as always gentlemen, although I found that Bendis analogy to be quite disturbing O_o

    • littlekingryan* says:

      I found it to be disturbing, too. If by disturbing, you mean HILARIOUS. I also appreciated Elliott’s comments about “Breaking Into Comics the Marvel Way.” I thought that book was going to be something far more substantial than what it turned out to be. “Bust your ass” is right.
      I actually liked Siege #3. Can we still be friends?

      • Sure, we can all be friends. But do we have to like each other? 😛

        J.

        • littlekingryan* says:

          I like that you don’t like certain things. I like the way you don’t like them. But you certainly don’t have to like me. Although I am very likeable. I’m so likeable that you may become annoyed and not like me.

      • littlekingryan* says:

        To clarify, a lot of my judgment on comics comes from the art. I collect certain artists’ work regardless of the writer, character, or comics company. I really didn’t like the story in Ultimate Wolvie vs. Hulk, but I bought the entire series because Yu kicked ass on that book. Same thing with Siege. My copy could have been a misprint which contained no words, and I still would have liked it because I think Coipel’s stuff is great. I miss his Thor with JMS. It’s a perfect storm of writer and artist which creates a great comic, but excellent art alone can produce a good one…

        • Deemar says:

          I’m more into the writers, but if paired with a artist I’m not keen on I can pass on a book regardless of whose writing it.

          • tomstewdevine says:

            I’m different yet, I will read anything by my favorite writers, even if the art sucks, it could still be a cool story. I also stick with my favorite artist but if they team up with a shitty writer, I won’t pick it up, loads of great art won’t make up for it if I can’t read the book.

  5. generaldark says:

    i find it funny how IMO marvel doesnt know how to tell storys with there “god” charecters. its too limited to realism which is what i hate.

    • Luiz de Mello says:

      I don’t think that Marvel as a whole do not know how to do that, or that they can’t. Every Oeming work for them that I put my hands on have been great, imo. It just seems that the main factor that marvel considers to ask a writer to use certain characters, especially on main titles and events, has nothing to do with the writer’s talent to write that character/kind of character.

    • SMARTASS8 says:

      I even find Marvel’s so called “realism” suspect. Giving your “heroes'” costumes modern day “upgrades” and making them extremely unlikable just makes me feel better about real life. I don’t want my escapist entertainment to be grittier than real life. I also don’t believe, no matter what JoeyQ and his pretentious Zombies say, that the Marvel Universe is more realistic thatn the DCU. They have Howard The Duck, a millenia old giant who eats planets, a floating city above Oklahoma where Norse gods live, and now a monkey hitman.

  6. Venom829 says:

    I’m a Bendis fan myself, so I always give him a shot with a different issue or title, and 99% of the time, I pay for it. (NOT WITH MY $), but with my pride, but I keep doing it, cause I believe something good will eventually happen.

    • Deemar says:

      Bendis simply needs to go back too his roots, crime comics. Dude needs to step away from superheroes and produce another Jinx or Torso.

      • littlekingryan* says:

        I think you’re right on the money, there. It seems to me like he’s tried to shoehorn aspects of his earlier style (like naturalistic dialogue and plot decompression) into superhero comics and the fit is a bad one. The longer you wear that shoe, the more it starts to hurt your foot, and that accounts for a lot of the outcry from fans that you hear now.

        • Deemar says:

          Agree he’s at heart a crime writer.

          That’s why he excelled on Daredevil, DD is essentially a crime comic wrapped in a superhero gloss, that’s why he’s kill on Batman and not say Superman. His work is too cynical and dark.

  7. Mike F says:

    Bendis, Millar, and Loeb WERE all great writers. I think its a Marvel curse. They see good writers they hire them and tell them “well we’ll let you do anything you want, now does DC do that for their writers??” and then after giving in to temptation, they loose sight of what got them popular in the first place.

    Now, Bendis, Millar, and Loeb are all shitty ass fucking writers. Plan and simple. I’ve given up on all of them. I don’t even give them chances anymore. I’m debating if I should even finish Siege, but after Elliot’s true words, I feel I should give Bendis his LAST chance to keep one fan at least.

    I’ll always keep their previous works that I loved, but that’s it. No more. I’m really too broke to continue to have faith.

    • Locusmortis says:

      Millar was NEVER a great writer, I remember him from the 2000AD days and he was shit then. Any good ideas he had were mooched from Grant Morrison when they were buddies.

      • Mike F says:

        When he went solo on Swamp thing it was in fact good. When he went solo on the Flash it was in fact good. Red Son also was good.

        And from there on out it was only a matter of time…

        • Locusmortis says:

          Yeah and all those series were produced when he was friends with Morrison. Coincidence? I think not.

          • Mike F says:

            I’m aware of that, but, There’s no evidence saying he didn’t write those scripts after he went solo, That the scripts he stole from under Grant’s bed. Its not entirely far-fetched that he did write them. Until you prove to me that he didn’t, I’ll continue to respect those titles. Does this mean he’s redeem for his bad work? Absolutely not. Its a simple matter. He’s a bad writer, he’s pretty much a 3-hit wonder. But, I won’t assume anything since back then he was a different writer than he is now. So there’s plenty of reason to believe he was good then.

            • Locusmortis says:

              I’m guessing you’ve never read his Silo, Sam Slade Robo-Hunter, Judge Dredd, Red Razors and Canon Fodder in that case?

        • Morlock50 says:

          Y’know, Red Son gets major props on these boards as an example of good Millar writing, but I fucking hated it. Started out really good, but took a serious nose dive 1/2 through. Totally invalidated Superman as a force for good in the world. Hated his depiction of Wonder Woman to boot.

          • SMARTASS8 says:

            I didn’t hate it but I find it extremely overrated. If it wasn’t for all the praise it gets, I’d probably have forgotten that I even read it.

    • Deemar says:

      It’s not a curse (well maybe) it’s a lack of editors doning their job

  8. Venom829 says:

    I remember reading the graphic novel in where Bullseye killed Karen Page. I felt an emotional connection when that happened, cause the charcters involved where all developed over years, and was done so you could feel Daredevil’s pain, unlike Bendis, where it’s just too much, and there is nothing but sexism, and mysoginy.

  9. Rob F says:

    I completely agree with everything said about Bendis. I jumped on New Avengers right before Secret Invasion and for about seven issues I waited for something to happen. He is literally the king boring pointless dialogue. Maybe that’s what breaking in at Marvel means: writing shitty dialogue, creating crossovers that don’t deliver what’s advertised, depicting violence in place of the story, and claiming it’s all been planned out for a long time. If Siege has been in the works for 7 years should that frighten us about what else they have in store?

  10. Hey Elliott you’ve never asked me to send you a script when I asked how to be a comic book writer… 😦

    That consequence idea is a very good point. For example when Bullseye murders Elektra, DD came after him and broke every bone in his body. When Green Goblin murders Gwen Stacy he died by his own hand later.

    I want to see Norman Osborn and Sentry just go die. I know that sounds bad but I’m just so sick of seeing them.

    Great Last Rants you guys!

    • heckimlistening says:

      Norman Osborn should never have returned. The Death of Gwen Stacey story was really great and Harry could have become the “Green Goblin”.

      I could see why Bullseye was brought back, but now that we have Lady Bullseye, he seems like DD should be able to just wipe the floor with Bullseye once and for all.

      I’d like to see the Sentry just vanish into the Void or whatever and never come back. Thor should be the one to take him down.

      • cballsack says:

        Well, Harry was dead too. And that was another great storyline in Spectacular Spider-Man, courtesy of J.M. Dematteis and with Sal Buscema turning out the finest artwork of his career. But I pretty much agree with your sentiment.

        Incidentally, does anyone else like the “feathery” costume of Captain America? I liked when it was subtle chainmail, not big ass ridges.

        • Luiz de Mello says:

          I kinda like the feathery because it reminds me of eagle’s feathers. Since he already wears the colors of the colors, stars and stripes, wearing something that also connects to that other national symbol is imo very fitting.

          • Luiz de Mello says:

            colors, star and stripes of the flag*

            or whatever I was going to write on that phrase, I think I am a bit confused right now OO

        • littlekingryan* says:

          Personally, I like the big-ass ridges pioneered by Cassaday. Maybe more challenging to draw, as opposed to the “feathery” shorthand that is more a stylistic quirk than a physical texture. It relates more to chain mail-type feel when you can see the individual plates overlapping.

          • Luiz de Mello says:

            You know, reading what you said and reading with more attention the original post, I think I don’t really get what people mean by ‘feathery’, for me Cassaday’s big ridges were what people call feathery cause, for me, that structure resembles that of (big) feathers. Seems like I said the contrary of what I wanted.

        • SMARTASS8 says:

          I HATE Captain America’s pinecone armor!!! Not only is it, imo, aesthetically ugly, it also makes it impossible to believe that Cap could be agile at all wearing that bulky crap. I blame Cassaday for making this the current look for Cap. I’ve never understood his popularity. I really dislike his art and the way he makes everyone look like they have Down’s Syndrome.

          • Oh, Smaartass…you are awesome. I have never understood Cassaday’s popularity either. The only work that he has done that I enjoyed was Planetary…but that was mostly due to the writing. Maybe he should draw a “My So Called Life” comic to play up to his strengths. Was that too harsh?

            J.

            • SMARTASS8 says:

              Do you mean “Life Goes On”?

              I’ve got you agreeing with me twice so far in this thread, Jose. I should just shut up now since I know this winning streak I’m on can’t last. LOL!

              • No, I mean My So Called Life. The theme song I believe was “Life Goes On”. It’s the show with Corky…who happened to also release a music album.

                J.

                • SMARTASS8 says:

                  You’re right about the theme song(I watched the first year of that show when I was in 8th grade), but Corky was on Life Goes On. My So Called Life was another show starring Calire Danes which I’ve never seen but all the critics loved.

                  • Oh….my…god. You are right…but Clare Danes was not in Life Goes On. How could I have gotten these two shows mixed up? I thought I was a fountain of useless pop culture knowledge…but it seems I was wrong. I….don’t understand…how this could have happened. I think I need to take some time to reevaluate…my life. I am so ashamed right not. Fuck…

                    J.

                    p.s.

                    I am only half joking.

                    • littlekingryan* says:

                      Kellie Martin and Claire Danes kind of fall into that same mid-nineties pop culture no-zone, so you can be forgiven. Whether you can forgive yourself, well, that’s another matter entirely…

                    • SMARTASS8 says:

                      That’s OK! You know a lot about anime and I guess I know more than I should about ABC family dramas(omigod I even remember the station they aired on!!!).

                • littlekingryan* says:

                  No, you mean “Life Goes On.” And the album? I think you mean William Hung. She Bang!

                • SMARTASS8 says:

                  I wish I could say that this was the first time I’ve posted this online.

          • littlekingryan* says:

            Ouch! While I totally respect your opinion, I’ll wait until you produce a better version of Cap before I (mentally) change your name from Smartass8 to SmartassGR8! (insert winky smiley face here)

            • SMARTASS8 says:

              For the record, I posted my hatred for Cassaday before I read your post littlekingryan. I don’t want you to think I was attacking your opinion.

              I’ve used SmartassGR8 as a screen name before in other forums since Smartass8 was already taken. Unfortunately, it’s been so long since I’ve used them, I can’t even remember what forums they were.

              • littlekingryan* says:

                Opposing opinions make the internet fun, my friend. I didn’t take it as a dig toward me at all, I hope you didn’t read an overly sarcastic tone into my post, either. The only thing I get offended over is if I become too politically correct…
                I do have to disagree about Cassaday, though. He grew on me big time and I’ve come to admire the quality and progression of his art from early stuff like Desperadoes to the stuff he’s doing now like…like…erm, covers? Bastard! So he thinks he’s a director now? I’ve turned on him in the course of a single comment…

                • SMARTASS8 says:

                  I didn’t sense any negative tone in your post. I just didn’t want you to think I was trolling you. I’m usually pretty polite online until someone attacks me for no reason and then my Irish temper comes out.

                  I hate PC shit as well. I’d rather risk being offended than having everything censored. You can always turn the channel, leave the theater, or stop talking to a person if you’re offended by something. I usually lean “left” on a lot of issues but their love of political correctness makes me want to punch a baby. LOL!

                  • littlekingryan* says:

                    I once punched a baby because it’s mother insisted on how “well-spoken” my black friend Andre was. Then I photographed the baby’s bloody, vacant sneaker on the sidewalk for “artistic purposes”. Did that go too far? Or just far enough?
                    Only kidding of course, but that’s my view on PC.

          • Locusmortis says:

            Kirby’s design was original and best, Cassadays is a way too exaggerated version of it http://www.nexternal.com/dreamland/images/1capbb.jpg

      • Deemar says:

        Agree I think Bullseye is one of those characters who’s time has come for a permanent rest.

        • Mike F says:

          If only Elektra took him out when Frank was on board. I guess we should of saw the warning signs from there on out that women would have no place in the Marvel U.

          • Well when Elektra and Gwen Stacy were murdered Frank Miller and Gerry Conway were showing us how it should be done. The bad guys faced severe consequences for doing what they did, where, nowadays when Bullseye or whoever, kills someone they usually don’t face any consequence or justice.

          • Deemar says:

            I wouldn’t put Frank Miller in the same catergory as Bendis or Mark Millar when it comes to women, Frank creates as many cool female characters as he does male and usually they are smarter than their male counterparts.

            • Mike F says:

              Did you read all-star batman? Vicki vale and Black Cannery have never been written so awful.

              But I guess this is the current Miller. yes you are definitely right that 80’s miller was much classier and skilled with writing. I think as time went by his style become very default with grim gritty sin city fashioned characters.

              • Mike F says:

                But your right. Frank Miller completely rules over Bendis and Millar. They are shit compared to his early Marvel works.

              • littlekingryan* says:

                I’m a big fan of Miller, and I was entirely disappointed with All-Star. It was almost a parody of great stories like DKR.

              • Deemar says:

                Heh..maybe he’s just senile now.

                Didn’t touch Allstar B&R

                Jim Lee just doesn’t do it for me anymore

                • Mike F says:

                  Don’t bother with it. After the Dark Night Returns, his Batman titles were just bad.

                  And yes the entire series was really just a self-parody of batman saying “I’m the goddamn batman” every so often.

                  • littlekingryan* says:

                    That is the exact line I had in mind. One of my comics-loving friends thought that was great, and I couldn’t help but pity him.

                  • SMARTASS8 says:

                    I know this is going to label me a tasteless moron, but I’m not a big fan or Dark Knight Returns. I liked it as a kid, but when I reread it around the time of Dark Knight Strikes Again, it took me forever to get through. I found it really slow paced and was sick of the talking heads on TV after the first issue. I feel Batman Year One still holds up and the few issues I’ve read of his Daredevil work were good, but everything else of his that I’ve read have been guilty pleasures(Sin City), overrated(300), or just crap(All Star Batman).

                    • Batman Year One > The Dark Knight Returns.

                      J.

                    • littlekingryan* says:

                      While I hold a special place in my (fourteen year old) heart for Dark Knight Returns, I do love Year One as well. I am tempted to reach back from my La-Z-Boy and pluck it from the shelf behind me as a good post-shower pre-sleep nighttime read this very as-we-type moment. This does not type you as a “tasteless moron.” Loving Year Two over either DKR or Year One, however, probably would…

              • Don’t forget about Wonder Woman.

                J.

        • Will.S says:

          I wouldn’t mind it if Bullseye was killed off, I think he’s sort of outlived his usefulness and the bastard has had it coming 3 times over. The problem is that even if you kill him off, some other writer down the line is going to find a way to bring him back and use him in more Daredevil stories.

          The constant killing off and resurrections just make deaths a temporary vacation and robs certain stories of their impact. That’s one of the problems with these characters being properties I guess but that comes with the territory so I think writers nowadays fully know that even if they kill off a character some way some how they’ll find a way to bring them back and tell more stories with them.

  11. Deemar says:

    Another great episode fellas

    That how to break into Marvel Comics so glad I didn’t touch that thing.

  12. Locusmortis says:

    With Siege Bendis has not only fucked over JMS, he’s also thrown Fraction under a bus because its going to take him ages to rebuild Thor just like it took two years to rebuild Iron Man.

    • littlekingryan* says:

      Yeah, but if his rebuild of Thor is anything like his run on Iron Man, I’m in!

    • vegedge says:

      add it to the list.

      bendis fucked over:

      dan slott from having a long running avengers run.

      spiderman writers by having him unmask infront of the new avengers, same week(around) as he refused to infron of the FF, his real superhero family.

      jms

      fraction

      every writer forced to shoe horn osborne in the past year.

    • Will.S says:

      I’m pretty sure that if Fraction didn’t like what Bendis was doing with Asgard during Siege he wouldn’t have taken the job. Bendis and Fraction are actually pretty chummy and same with Ed Brubaker so I think for the most part they are aware of each other’s stuff and can play ball with the characters.

      I’m looking forward to seeing what Fraction does with the title post Siege, judging from his interviews and all this talk of the 9 worlds I have a feeling that he’ll be doing more of a mix of Simonson and Kirby while putting Asgard in it’s own realm again. I just wished that Travel Foreman was doing the book instead of Pascual Ferry, I love Pascual but I think he fits better on Iron Man since he’s great with tech AND people.

      But the JMS stuff was a damn shame, in a perfect world JMS would have been able to at least fully finish his run or long term goal before something like Siege hit. It just seemed like he had a bunch of interesting directions and ideas planned to only have Siege come along and discourage him from doing more event tie in stuff. But at the same time he did have a lot of leeway with the character to do his own thing so it’s not like he was wronged either.

      Even Walter Simonson played ball with stuff like Secret Wars II and Mutant Massacre and funny enough the tie ins to Secret Wars II and Mutant Massacre itself were pretty well done.

  13. vegedge says:

    too bad it will probally suck.

    cant wait for the next event. 8 years in the making.

    johns has said he was 5 more years of green lantern in mind.

    i hope bendis goes the millar route and goes to movies and leaves the main universe’s alone.

    • SMARTASS8 says:

      Don’t say that! I hate Marvel’s comics these days but I loved the Iron Man movie and liked The Incredible Hulk for the most part(although Leterrier’s idea to change the look of Abomination because his comic look didn’t make sense to him was typical Hollywood bullshit). I say send Bendis and Millar over to Boom or some other company whose products I don’t read.

      • But Boom! has “Dingo” which was easily the best mini series I have read in a long time. I also really enjoyed “Nola”. How about we send Bendis and Millar over to Zenescope? I could give two shits about their “comics”.

        J.

        • littlekingryan* says:

          Has anyone tried Irredeemable? That’s a decent Boom title, if I’m not mistaken. At any rate, I also support any smaller companies desperately trying not to be swallowed up in this market.

        • SMARTASS8 says:

          All I know is I tried Boom before Waid came on board and I didn’t like anything they had to offer(even Giffen’s Hero2 and I usually like Giffen). Now that Waid is in charge(an average writer at best who always comes off as an asshole imo), I’m even less likely to try them again. Since you like Dingo and Nola(all I’ve done is flip through Dingo on the rack so I’m not judging), then how about we send Bendis & Millar to Broadsword? I used to love Balent’s art enough to buy Tarot but I had to drop it when it went from being a fantasy/superhero type book with PG-13 good girl art to a collection of art pages full of prose and 1 drop of semen away from being porn(it also didn’t help that the pictures the readers sent in featured a lot of ugly naked chicks). Dirty wiccan hippies!!!

          • You know…I have met Mark Waid twice. The first was at a convention a loooooong time ago and I had him sign my issues of the first run he did on Captain America and he was pretty cool. The second time I met him was when I was working at a different comic shop. DC had flown him into town so he could “get away from it all” so he could write some fill-in issues of JLA (during the Morrison run) and he just came in to but some new comics from that week. Again, he was very polite and we talked briefly about comics. I know in interviews he comes off as quite snarky and rude but both times that I personally met him I didn’t see that at all.

            J.

  14. Ironmuskrat says:

    Great last rants guys!

    And yes Jose, My wife is still upset with you and Elliott. I was listening to the podcast when you started going into graphic detail about Bendis Handjobious Interuptious and found myself fumbling for the mute button, that was a close one my friend.

    I might have to start finding a dark, remote part of my house to listen to you guys. CCW and my love of Japanese fart porn are now two things my wife can never find out about. Congratulations =)

    IM

  15. MyComicLife says:

    Heyy all…….first time posting. Loved the review. Totally agree with what Elliot said…..i was really looking forward for a bullseye hawkeye fight..but…ahhhhh…screw it…i should get it by now that Bendis will always find a way to screw it up for u…..thank you bendis…THANK U.
    BTW….i really loved Coipel’s art…if it wasnt for him i dont think i would have even picked up this damn book…..guess im a sucker for awesome art.
    i just wish Coipel moves on and works with other marvel writers……hmmmm i wonder how he will fair up with Hickman on fantastic 4.
    but woudnt it be great if he went to DC and teamed up with JMS again on Wonderwoman….how cool would that be. plus it would be a big middle finger to the FACE to bendis…..

  16. saar18 says:

    Great last rants!

    Jose, have you heard the New Gorillaz album already? If so what your thoughts about it?

  17. AvS says:

    Nice episode guys. Elliott, you were about to mention some of the basic writing rules that were broken in some of stories in that ‘Break Comics the Marvel Way’ but you didn’t finish the thought. If you get a chance can you go into more detail here?

  18. Liquid R says:

    I was disappoint in the hole CRY FOR JUSTICE book, but one thing it has over the marvel books it atleast showed if a villian did something f@#%ed up that they would get their come upings.

  19. Will.S says:

    I will agree with the Writing Comics the Marvel Way not really being what it’s advertised as.

    It was basically the equivalent of a “Young Guns Anthology” but packaged as something else. I personally just bought it for the art since I liked what I saw in there but by no means is this stuff helpful to someone who wants to break into the industry.

    I think the secret of breaking into the industry at this point is self evident as Elliot had stated so these issues are artist showcases using sample scripts from industry writers. Not that I want to really break into Marvel or anything as I’m mostly content with just reading the stuff for entertainment value but then again I wouldn’t mind doing some design work for them either if came the chance.

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