CCW 3.58: LAST RANTS! Justice League Generation Lost and the cost of buying comics

Posted: June 14, 2010 in CCW Review, CCW TV, DC Comics, Geek Culture, Last Rants, Opinion, Reviews
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Comments
  1. Venom829 says:

    32 MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She’s a BIG ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. Venom829 says:

    I usually buy games when the price drops down, I usually just rent games when they first come out.

  3. pilkk90 says:

    the only book i ever dropped was squadron supreme vol 2 the bad one after JMS left, other than that im happy with most off the books i get, probably because most of them are from image. Support Ron Martz and buy witchblade and Artifacts, this event looks awsome, how about a review guys?

  4. SMARTASS8 says:

    Admit it Jose! Since you’re the one that let us know Elliott rarely wears pants, you called him “haterpants”. 🙂

    Elliott was really freaking me out when he just started staring into the camera. I felt like he was looking into my soul.

  5. Benicio127 says:

    I’ve been really enjoying JLI: Generation Lost. Glad you guys spotlighted it.

    And I just have to say… Batman solicits came out today. Guess who’s NOT writing Batman 703? TONY DANIEL. YES.

  6. phil says:

    that 1st song, was that a remix of the veronica mars theme?

  7. AvS says:

    Great episode guys.

  8. vegedge says:

    i dropped almost everything. no more lanterns, or avengers, or spiderman.

    all i get now is HELLBOY / BPRD (jose or elliot, are you a fan of those books?) they have been consistantly good since the start, more so bprd.great team book

    daredevil

    american vampire, I zombie(issue 2 was not good. i hope it picks up..)

    oh and the marquis which is simply amazing.best horror series out now i think. but thats only graphic novels now.

  9. Mike F says:

    Whats with all the haters on this video on YouTube? Are all the videos getting comments like this on Youtube? I’d say this is the Generation Lost. Seriously, can’t people make a comment that relates to a video anymore?

    Good to see Jose and Elliot laying down the law there tho 🙂

  10. agent42q says:

    Such a good video, with interesting points. Gave me so much I wanted to say…
    SO I DID!

    SHA-BAM I’m in your form, respondin’ with my vlog!

  11. cballsack says:

    Cool video. I’m glad you made prices such a big issue, because its impact cannot be understated and it will absolutely kill the industry. Back when I was in my collecting prime, I probably averaged about 12-13 different comics a week. That would cost me about close to $52 now per week. How can anyone appreciate the whole of the entire Marvel and/or DC Universe? Those big crossover events will slowly lose their impact since people won’t know who these characters are anymore, since no one will be reading their books.

    And Jose made a great point about how the price increases used to be in small increments, and now they’re jumping up a whole dollar. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

    I remember an interview where Neil Adams said that a comic is said you can read and complete while taking a dump on the toilet. As Homer would say: “It’s funny because it’s true.” And there’s no way I’m gonna spend 4 bucks for something I can read in the time it takes to shit — I don’t care how good the book the book is.

  12. IronMuskrat says:

    A very well done video Elliott and Jose!

    It’s was strange that the day before I watch this Last Rants my wife made a strange comment to me that made me laugh at first, then made me think a little bit the price of comics in general.

    Anyone who reads my posts here on the blog knows my wife is pretty outspoken, not only about the things I do on the internet, but a whole lot of stuff that I never bother to talk about here. Believe it or not I really do appreciate her honesty and willingness to question the things I get myself into, she is like 800 pound guardian angel sitting on my shoulder.

    Anyway..

    I am sitting on the computer typing away on some reviews and my wife is sitting across from me at her desk handling the bills..

    Wife: So you spent $23 dollars at the comic store this week.
    Me: Yup, why?
    Wife: I think you should go back to playing that game.
    Me: Game? Which one?
    Wife: That Warcraft game.
    Me: ..Laughing.. Really? you want me to start playing WoW again, you couldn’t stand it when I played it before.
    Wife: Yeah, I did hate all the time you spent playing that stupid game, but it only cost us $15 dollars a month, this comic book thing you are doing now is costing us close to $100 dollars a month!
    Me: Yeah, but that $100 dollars means I get to spend more time with you!
    Wife: …Growl…

    I laughed about it at the time, but I had to admit she had a point, comics are a much more expensive hobby now then when I was a kid. Even if I only bought three $4 comic a week, that still adds up to about $48 dollars a month. Not a huge sum of money, but still enough money to make you wonder if your getting your moneys worth when it comes to entertainment. Do I spend $15 dollars on a few comics that I may read through in less than an hour, or do I drop that cash on a month subscription to a MMO game that will provide a lot more entertainment for me?
    When you think about it, the price of one 22 page comic book is starting to close in on the cost of an actual paperback book now, should I just pay the extra three dollars and get a novel to read?

    I guess what I am saying is Marvel and DC, for reasons that make no sense to me, are making it real easy for people to make the choice between buying comics and turning to other forms of entertainment to spend their money on.

    I still enjoy comics a great deal, and I have no plans to stop collecting right now. But I will be more discriminating when it comes to where I spend my money. Like Elliott said in the Last Rants, Marvel and DC are in no real danger of going out of business anytime soon. There are plenty of Marvel Zombies willing to drop big time cash on anything and everything that Marvel throws out there. With that in mind I will be looking to support more independent comics out there, the guys and gals that really do need my money to survive and put out more books.

    IM

    >>>I have just been informed by my wife that I need to point out the fact that she does not in fact, weigh 800 pounds.. she is very sexy. I can now leave the couch and return to bed. Thank You =)<<<<

  13. Mike F says:

    I think trades are a better deal. Since you can use a Borders coupon and get the entire book for 30 or 40% off and its in one drive rather than driving each week. No matter what your saving money and its more convenient.

    Altho part of me still loves holding the actual comic issue 🙂

  14. rush says:

    Great show fellas. Once again you guys have touched on subjects that constantly piss me off. I am constantly left bewildered at the loyalty consumers have for a company or product then it hit me. The consumers have bought the marketing tactics the companies employ. One of the most effective marketing strategies is to create a sense of community. Apple has done this very effectively. This fantasy of belonging to a popular community keeps fanboys buying a bunch of crap they know they shouldn’t. People don’t want to go against popular belief. That would make them outsiders and most just cannot cope with that. All companies including, our favorites, Marvel and DC exploit this fact very effectively.

    • cballsack says:

      Well, it’s also the fact that we grow up loving the characters. We grow up playing with Spider-Man toys and wearing Batman Underoos and watching their Saturday morning cartoons. So that can make it tough to give up the books, I would imagine. No matter how much the books might suck, you still like the characters.

      • Well if that is the case maybe John Layman should make Chew Underoos. That will fix things…maybe.

        J.

        • Deemar says:

          That doesn’t sound so good, “chew underoos” the Pedos would be all over this product.

          • Speaking of pedos, I think there is one who lives across from my apartment. There was a father yelling outside his apartment today telling him not to talk to his 10 year old son. This went on for about 5 minutes. The cops showed up a little later. Oh, the neighborhood drama.

            J.

            • Deemar says:

              Was he going..NOM..NOM…NOM…at the kid?

              and what kinda neighbor are you, ya’ didn’t save that kid.

              • I didn’t see him talking to the kid. I have seen him talking to other kids though but really didn’t think anything of it until today. Plus, he hates people who aren’t white.

                J.

                • Deemar says:

                  He must be great company, your friendly neighborhood racist.

                  Well the up shot he won’t be Nomming on your nom-noms.

                • Insideman says:

                  Jose, most states have actual websites where you can go look and see if any pedos live near you.

                  In CA it is big and bold. Before we moved in together, I actually went on the CA site and saw that my girlfriend’s building had 4 sex offenders in it.

                  A couple of months later, I printed the report and used it to negotiate LOWER RENT for her. 🙂

                  That fact aside, it was really nice to know that these creeps were around her– reformed or not.

              • cballsack says:

                Yeah, really. You should have put on your Kick Ass costume and done something.

          • rush says:

            They could be sold in vending machines like used panties in Japan.

      • rush says:

        The character might be good but if the story isn’t then who cares? The publishers count your love of the character to sell books that are mediocre at best. I sincerely wish that more comics fans would adopt the “what have you done for me lately” attitude to buying books.

        • cballsack says:

          I agree with you but sometimes it ain’t always easy. It’s kinda like the Transformers films. As much as I despise Michael Bay as a director and as bad as the last movie was, I know I’ll be there to see Transformers 3. Why? Cuz seeing live action Transformers on the big screen is just damn cool. Transformers 2 was riddled with faults from start to finish, but I’ll admit that my nips got hard when Optimus Prime fought both Starscream and Megatron at the same time. The fanboy in me totally nerdgasmed. Logically, I know I shouldn’t support another crappy movie, but I still wanna see it.

        • DidioForever says:

          Yeah, “changing habits” is very difficult to do if you have a life-long investment in a character like so many of us do

          Speaking as a really big fan of Spiderman *the character* I am guilty of ‘fanboyism’ in that I’ve somehow managed to keep up with every single issue of Amazing Spider-Man (and all the spin offs/one-shots/minis) since I got back into comics around the time of Civil War.

          But even though I’ve yet to spend $3.99/£3.15 on a 22-page ish of Spiderman, the rate they’re pumping out issues, additional titles and issues with needless additional content at $3.99 has worn me down so much to the point that I’ll be ending my ‘gap-less’ run with OMIT, no matter what they have planned after that arc.

          But that still means I’ve yet to spend about £40 ‘severance money’ on Spidey comics in order to reach that bookend point in my run from here to August.

          The bottom line is, there are people like me who need our little fix of franchises like Spiderman, Batman, Green Lantern and The Avengers, and Marvel and DC are quite obviously counting on this completist, loyalistic attitude in order to make their money.

          You don’t get that kind of ‘demand and demand’ publishing ethic from any other form of entertainment. Could you imagine paying an extra 3 dollars on going to see a film because of the director, cast or sfx budget? People just wouldn’t do it. Marvel and DC really are preying upon a certain mentality which seems to be exclusive to comic book fandom.

          • rush says:

            Why do you think you go along with it if you know what’s happening? I’ve been a fan of these characters since I was 6 years old and living in another country but I guess I just don’t truly understand spending money on something I know I’m not happy with.

            • DidioForever says:

              Because the thing with the ASM titles is…And has been for a while…With every shit story arc you’ll see an awesome writing/art team coming on for the next one, or one after. Or you’ll see a story thread popping up that you want to see unfold. They manage to squeeze *just* enough of the good stuff out to keep you hanging in there, even if you’re having to wade through a load of drivle inbetween.

              But at the end of the day it has become a joyless purchase, if only for all the extra crap I feel like I have to buy to keep up with it all. As of O.M.I.T. I’m out and I guess I can get my ‘Spidey fix’ from collecting late 70’s/early 80’s ASM on ebay or something.

              Even if the first post-OMIT arc is something awesome like a Slott/Martin arc with the Prowler or something similarly nerdgasmic, I’m just going to bite my fist and leave it.

              • rush says:

                The situation sucks. I think you are doing the right thing. I have HUGE holes in my collection and there is nothing wrong with that.

                • kurumais says:

                  im with you as most comic fans are our loyalties arent so much to writers and artist or even publishing companies but to the characters…. to the franchise. creators come and go but our favorite characters are going to be there every month.

                  also i dont think its an overstatement to say the terms comic fan and comic collector have been synonymous for the past 30 years.
                  that collector impulse i think is one of the things that attracts many of us to comics.

              • AvS says:

                If the good arcs are truly good, you don’t need the filler arcs.

                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing comic fans that continuity mattered.

      • Deemar says:

        I wore Home made Luke Cage Underoos

  15. tomstewdevine says:

    Well holy shit, this video was back to the prime quality video and discussion that I have come to love on the CCW. Not that some of the recent videos were terrible, I just felt like this one was really good, something specail you only get every once in a while. So thank you guys so much for doing this, Now to the issues at hand:

    -Dropping books: I agree that this is something that every comic fan should be doing a lot, this means that maybe then you are spending you money on something new or different. I am constantly picking up new books and dropping old books, sure I have a few holes in my runs, but usually not an arc so it is still all re readable. I just recently dropped Cap to start picking up Secret Avengers and I fell like I made a good move even if Brubaker is one of my favorite writer and would like to pick both of them up. I dropped it on principal, Fuck Marvel for making every Brubaker book 4 dollars.

    -Generation Lost: I didn’t read any of these until this week because the new one had Blue Beetle on the cover so I went back and purchased the other two. I liked the series quite a bit, it is fun to have everybody think these guys are crazy, but the art work leaves something to be desired.

    -Future videos: I really like the long videos so keep that up, I would love to see you guys talk about SHEILD #2 in a video the second book was amazingly good. Also even though you guys say that the shows about good indy books don’t get enough hits, I really like those videos, I have picked up quite a few books now because of Jose’s suggestions. Thanks again.

    • Deemar says:

      Yah! That damned Captain America it is the Edgar Poe of my pull list

    • We taped a review for Shield #2 on Sunday. It should be up later this week and we did review a couple of Image books as well so hopefully that will satiate you need for indie reviews. 🙂

      J.

      • Deemar says:

        Dude you read my evil black mind, I was wondering if you guys was gonna get into Shield.

        If you doing a indie episode could you suggest some books for me only ‘indie’ I’m consistantly reading is Chew if you call that indie.

        What would suite ol’Deemar

        • We talk about the new Chew too. 🙂

          J.

        • tomstewdevine says:

          I have picked up the first two trades of Chew, so it has been the first book that I collect the trades of, while the book is coming out. I picked it up at my local comic shop still because I feel the need to support them. Even though I paid full price for the trades I still saved seven dollars compared to picking up the single issues. Not too bad, I think now I will be a guy who buys less monthly’s but more trades, I could never give up monthly’s all together though.

      • tomstewdevine says:

        Look at that, I can always count on CCW.

  16. Deemar says:

    Tiger Wooo..Tiger Wooo..I like em mang

  17. rush says:

    I’m currently reading Sway by Ori Brafman and Rom Brafman. Here is just one idea presented in the book which relates some of the choices we make everyday including comics.

    http://coolmarketingstuff.com/the-5-cent-hotdog-how-value-attribution-affects-consumer-behavior/

  18. DidioForever says:

    Awesome last rant!

    But are we 100% sure that DC plan to raise ALL titles to $3.99? I mean, over what length of time? Do we know that books will literally rise in price or is it more likely that they’ll be ending titles/relaunching them at $3.99?

    It does seem to me like people are jumping the gun with the speculation here, at least before anything’s actually been announced by DC.

    Drop a title because it isn’t entertaining you, fine, but surely we shouldn’t be scaring people into dropping books for fear of a future price increase when it hasn’t happened yet?

    Because for me, ‘waiting for trade’ means buying discounted trades online, which doesn’t benefit my LCS at all. I’ve seen too many good record stores close down where I live to not be concerned about this.

    • rush says:

      Are you running a charity for these businesses? 🙂

      • DidioForever says:

        Hah hah. Seriously though, wouldn’t it depress the hell out of you if you had to do all your comic shopping online?

        • rush says:

          A little, yes. I like my LCS and the people running it. That’s the pisser man. Demand for comics have been on the decline for years. I haven’t heard any brilliant plans to reverse this trend by the publisher. What is happening is the burden of holding up the comics business is being but squarely on the shoulders of consumers and the small business owner(LCS).

          • kurumais says:

            i split my pull list between 2 shops because i want to spread my money around and i like the folks who run both shops im with you DF

        • Locusmortis says:

          No it wouldn’t. I’ve done all my comics shopping online for years because I live somewhere where there isn’t any comic shops.

          People don’t work hard to earn money to provide some kind of charity service, to have comic shops there as some kind of club house or social service. Comic shops have to compete with online sellers and from what I’ve seen of the better shops online (Forbidden Planet, Dreamland, Midtown) they do that.

    • We are not jumping the gun. We mention in this video we talked to a creator at DC. Also, look at the new solicitations for DC. A growing number of $3.99 32 page books. We don’t just pull things out of our asses in order to “scare” people.

      J.

      • DidioForever says:

        I wasn’t accusing you of that and yes I watched the video all the way through as I do with every video you guys put up!

        But there are only two 22-page $3.99ers solicited so far (I think?) and they’re not price jumps, as one is a new title and the other is simply losing pre-existing back-up material

        I’m not doubting the American Vampire writer dude’s claim, but I am doubting that in two months time EVERY DC book will be $3,99 all of a sudden which is how everyone seems to be reacting here. It took Marvel a good couple of years to get their titles as expensive as they are today.

        I just can’t see flagship titles like Batman & Robin, GL, Flash, Brightest Day and Generation Lost going up in price, at least until they either finish or get relaunched.

        • DidioForever says:

          Correction, 3 – There;s that Time Bandits thing or whatever. But that’s an event! Marvel have been pulling that shit with events/minis for way more than two years now

        • I doubt they will all be $3.99 within two months too. I understand that it is a gradual process but this is just the beginning. We will see where everything is after six months time.

          J.

          • Mr.Wrestling says:

            Well I saw the DC solicitations for September and I only saw two books that were 3.99 for 32 pages.

            Those were Emerald Warriors and American Vampire.

            Every other 3.99 book from DC is solicitated at 40 pages

          • Locusmortis says:

            You let them get away with 1 $3.99 comic then it soon becomes 3, if you let them get away with 3 then its soon 10. If you let them get away with 10 its soon 25 etc.

            If you don’t crack down on them from the start then they will keep pushing and pushing like Marvel have done. Don’t buy the new Green Lantern book, don’t buy Time Masters, if you do then they will have every justification to push more 32 page $3.99 books.

            • DidioForever says:

              Exactly.

              Even if they raised something like the next Morrison/Batman book to $3,99 I’d jump to trade. I think/hope DC fans are generally more of my kind of mentality on these things than the Zombies anyway

    • Insideman says:

      I buy ALL my CURRENT trades from my favorite comic book store. If it wasn’t such a hassle to get Diamond to provide older back stock (that they so rarely seem to care to carry)– I would buy all my older trades from the same store too… As I like supporting my comic store. As it stands, with Diamond’s ineptitude– I have been forced to buy some Manga elsewhere.

      My store’s discount is BETTER than any other place selling new trades on-line and they are nice people… So while lots of people buy trades on-line from Amazon (I don’t know why they still do because often it seems they could care shit-all about HOW they package their books for shipping now), I find my shop’s on-line mail order service to be as near perfection as I could ever expect.

      Want to buy trades on-line AND support a comic shop?

      BUY THEM ON-LINE FROM A COMIC SHOP!

  19. Edward2962 says:

    I think you’re right Marvel, will always be around ‘cuz the characters create licensing opportunities for ppl. But I wouldn’t count on that Disney backing forever.Someone correct me if I’m wrong,but didn’t Disney dramatically cut back their own line of comics back in the mid-90’s just ‘cuz they felt the small profits generated by the comics line weren’t worth the effort? I can easily see some Disney CEO saying let’s dump this stone around our necks.

    • Insideman says:

      Edward, having been on the inside of this matter several times… I honestly believe that many characters will always be published in a regularly released format. Whether that format is as paper periodicals or digital– that’s for the future and technology to decide.

      The licensing of these characters means MUCH more to these companies bottom-lines than publishing does. So much in fact– that many characters would simply NOT have a monthly comic if they didn’t generate huge licensing revenues.

      The publishers have to look like they are trying to promote and disseminate their own characters. If they don’t promote their own characters with regular creative output– why should any licensor be expected to be interested?

  20. hackslash2020 says:

    I havent given my opinion about the price increase of comics yet,

    but my hunch is that the price increase of comics has to be an immediate result of lower print runs.
    (Fixed Costs(writer, artist, overhead) versus Variable Costs(cost of paper/ink, transport) and finding the right balance(=new pricetag on comic) between profit and volume.

    There are three type of buyers.
    1) The Fanboys that always buy(Fixed profit)
    2) The incidental & 3) The regular buyer (Variable profit)

    How big is category 1? Is it dominating Category 2 and 3 in sheer volume?
    Cause Category 2 and 3 are going to buy less comics when prices increase.

    from my own experiences: If a comic is really good, then I am willing to pay more money for it.
    Sometimes, like when I have to travel by plane and at the airport I go to the bookstore cause I want something good to read and then I am not looking at price tags at all.
    I Believe that the average consumer, rather pays a dollar more for a tasty steak then a dollar less for meat that tastes like shoe sole. Still, a comic book is a luxury product and is the first thing to drop when people have less money to spend.

    • hackslash2020 says:

      I just googled a couple of articles that talk about the price increase of comics.
      In these articles guys like Quesada/Buckley blame/justify the price increase on rising costs for paper, ink and distribution.

      Now that is a load of crap, g@ddamn!
      Ooh how I hate it when people lie or think the general public is that stupid.
      cause rising costs will only gradually/slowly increase a price of a comic over time.

      Its that kind of bullsh!t that will destroy the last goodwill I have for Marvel.

      • hackslash2020 says:

        In a righteous world lower print runs justifies “A”(not a dollar) price increase but after reading Quesada’s statements on this topic, it just leaves me with the feeling that its just a cash-grab..

        • Greg says:

          If it was down to ink/costs then wouldn’t it make sense just to raise ALL titles to something like $3.25-$3.50?

          • DidioForever says:

            Sorry, that post was by me, just had my username cross over from another WordPress site!

            • kurumais says:

              well do you know what the price increase is for ink paper and what not. i have no clue but everything cost more these days, the printing industry has taken a big hit since the rise of the interwebs its not improbable for them to raise prices on publishers to recoup lost revenue

          • hackslash2020 says:

            since the 60’s comic prices double every 10 year.
            That means that in the year 2020 a comic book will cost us 8.00$

            If you make a chart out of that you see a curve that is slowly skyrocketing.
            If you project a total sales into it, it will be a curve that moves in a same angle but downwards to…zero?

  21. kurumais says:

    entertainment costs as a whole are crazy
    whats your cable bill for instance?
    i went to the met game last week it cost 19 BUCKS JUST TO PARK never mind tickets and i didnt even go near the concession stands and i wanted to try the shake shack its a high end hamburger and shake place from a big time restaurateur but i knew the prices would be insane
    a few weeks ago my nephew and i went to see the ny red bulls vs juventus at the red bulls brand new stadium we had a good time fun game we were right in the 1st row but we paid 55 bucks a ticket we never sat in front row for any sporting event so said what the hell but 55 bucks for sport that is a distant 5th place to hockey in major league sports in this country if they are lucky? it wasnt even sold out. everyone i know is talking about how sports tickets are to expensive. the mets and yankees just built brand new stadiums and giants and jet are opening their new home this season. and they want the fans to pony up. i keep asking myself is it worth it? its it worth 60 to 100 bucks to see a game?
    my cousins and brother went to opening day at the new yankee stadium last year. it was my uncle’s tickets so my brother bought my cousins a beer and a cheese steaks. 4 beers and 4 cheese steaks 99 bucks. thats %^$&ing insane!!
    i love sports i love going to games but i just cant see paying this much anymore

    • rush says:

      Were those cheese steaks made by Emeril? Holy shit!

      • MicahSkin says:

        At the Rugby games my team hosts the grub ususually free. Just go to the BQ someone set up, tell the guy weaving around just standing there you’d like a hot dog he hasn’t spilled his beer on and BAM! Good grub.

        Just sayin’

  22. kurumais says:

    how much are concert tickets nowadays? i havent been to a show in fooooooooooooooooourever.

    what are you guys paying for movie tickets ? nyc prices are nuts my buddy fred and i go see all the comic movies on imax its 20 bucks a tickets and you cant buy a small soda anymore 5 cents of sugar water for like 4 bucks its insane.

  23. SMARTASS8 says:

    I think part of the problem with a lot of comic readers is the collector mentality. Holes in your collection wouldn’t be a problem if you didn’t feel the need to bag & save every single comic you’ve ever bought. Since I’ve been buying comics since I could read, if I did that, I’d not only be living like one of those hoarders, I’d also probably have to pay money for a storage unit. I’ll save some of them, but I generally treat my “floppies” like I do magazines. I read them, hang onto them for a bit, and either pass them on to someone else or recycle them. You’re not going to make much money on 99.9% of the comis that haven bee released since the 90’s. Unless you really see yourself spending hours upon hours re-reading all of them, I really don’t see the point of keeping them all.

    I also find it funny that a book like Tarot has not only been on time non-stop since it came out but is also still only $2.99. Considering the company is basically a “mom & pop” operation(I believe it’s just Jim Balent & his wife), that says a lot when you look at how hard it is for Marvel & DC to put out books at that price ontime as well as featuring the same creative team as advertised. As much as I like Balent’s art, too bad he only does Wiccan porn these days.

    By the way, Jose & Elliott, did you guys ever read the original JLI books from the 80’s? I’m wondering how you feel Generation Lost compares to those Giffen classics(imo at least).

  24. kurumais says:

    the production cost of comics
    ccw is right to raise the question are the books we buy worth 3.99. and i think this is a great discussion. but the problem i am having with this issue and every time its raised is i havent the slightest idea what it cost to make the comics i buy. if we were talkng about movie ticket prices and iron man 2 we could easily find out what the budget for the movie was with a little digging we could probably find a very detailed breakdown in terms of individual salaries SFX budget marketing cots etc. we know how much stars and directors make. you can look up you favorite tv showa and see how much it cost and who gets paid what.
    we know how much sports figures make. everyone can easily find out what super teams like the yankees and man u spend on their teams saleries every year my mets aren’t too far behind. you have an idea what you are paying for more and less.

    but does anyone have any clue how it cost DC to “produce” say blackest night? from start to finish? including advertising?
    what does it cost image to put out an issue of chew? or invincible?
    how much does it cost the company and how much talent gets paid?

    if you found out geoff johns made say 8 grand an issue on blackest night would that seem too much or too little?
    if a pro, working on only 1 book, was making 2 grand an issue would that seem reasonable? they would only be making $24000 a year not a high paying job.
    i remember my reaction to the cast of seinfeld asking for a million dollar an episode year was shock 3 mil an episode just for 3 peoples salaries. ( jerry was a producer he made much much more) then rumors started about the friends cast asking for a mil each. i thought it was crazy till jason alexander broke it down on charlie rose and how much revenue an episode generated in just dollars a cents he and the other warranted the money which they got and why the friends didnt warrant it which they didnt get.
    i remeber on VH1 behind the music on TLC lisa left lopez broke down th points system on their album and how much the bad had to pay out for a multi platinum album after repaying the record company and paying off their management and agents and accounts and then paying taxes i believe she said they made 35 grand a year. 11 million albums and the talent made 95 grand.
    but i digressed enough my point is nobody has ever to my knowlege broken down the business side comics in such a way.
    are these guys making money hand over fist or not?

    • hackslash2020 says:

      You can see the marvel annual report for free on marvel.com
      It gives you Some info.

      total publising expenses in 2008 were $22 million with 1100 comics being published.
      That would make 20,000 dollar a comic.
      But publishing also includes internet, so the amount is somewhat lower.

      • kurumais says:

        thanks hack starting do some research found an article that states printing costs are a tightly held secret by both marvel and dc hmmm sounds ominous

        been doing searches for industry folks salaries so far nothing

  25. TheMSpot says:

    Just replace Jimmy Dean with DC or Marvel, and sausage with comic books. You know what just enjoy.

  26. Mike F says:

    I think some people except everything to be cheap…

    For instance, they try to pawn things that are worth $500 and only get 250. Why? Well, If the shop bought it for 500 and sold it for 500 *the amount its worth* then the store doesn’t get money. How can they pay their bill? pay their employees? make profit?

    I love money like all humans do, but I think sometimes you gotta just spend. You really gotta spend to make it, it keeps the economy flowing.

    In fact, for years I bought bullcrap comics by Bendis for the story sake without worrying since the money wasn’t a big deal. Now they cost more. And I realize is it worth MORE money? If anything the increase is making me wiser with my selection and what really is needed…

    But I think the increase is also gonna turn people away and make them wanna torrent. Which I disagree with ENTIRELY….

  27. Insideman says:

    As usual guys– you hit subject dead square. (Thanks for remembering me in the shout out too!)

    Higher prices will eventually kill the industry… and as others have also noted– at the very least, start driving people to other forms of entertainment.

    As you said Jose– You can see this happening almost every frickin’ day. I’ll add that I am sickened by it.

    A more expensive Blu Ray is supposed to provide a better picture. The “Next Gen” $60 video games supposedly boast a richer playing experience.

    More than half of the PRODUCTION costs that comic book publishers incur when making a comic have been reduced or completely WIPED AWAY by the use of computers and other printing technologies… and you still get the same 22 pages… Yet are expected to pay $1.00 more.

    Ever look at an old comic bleeding through to another page and marvel how thin comic book pages are now– with ZERO bleed through? That thinner paper saves MILLIONS in shipping and printing costs… and that is just one example.

    When companies whine about increased paper, ink and gas costs… It is mostly just whining. LOTS of products went up when gas jumped more than two dollars. That seemed understandable– given the sudden, drastic price increase. Then gas prices receded dramtically. Did the price on any of the affected products go down?

    Fuck no they didn’t.

    As you (and others) noted, if the comic price increase had been less drastic– then most people would have just shrugged and it would have been business as usual.

    But a sudden, drastic $1 price increase cannot possibly be seen as anything other than what it truly is: Gouging for the sake of gouging… And a big “FUCK YOU!” to all the fans.

    Enjoy it while you can BIG TWO… You are literally signing your own death warrants.

  28. Rob F says:

    In my own head, I don’t understand the collector mentality. It really should only come down to whether you like the product or not. I’ve never been the kind of fan to buy heavily or invest in runs but I do feel some buyers remorse when I look back at issues I only bought because a friend was getting them and we’d have something to talk about. Price increases make me look at each book and say “is this something that I’m going to want to own in the future?” And I know that my tastes will probably change if enough time passes but it’s really starting to make me overthink getting the few books a month that I do…

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