CCW Nation Poll of the Day

Posted: June 30, 2010 in CCW Nation, CCW OpEd, CCW*TV nation
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  1. cballsack says:

    I think the brooch bothers me most of all. Makes the costume way too busy.

  2. Mike F says:

    I love it. Really. I always wondered how WW would look if she had a make over and this is way better than I expected. If any, its the first time her costume blended in without being over the top. I’ll never forget her old costume and if they went back later one I wouldn’t mind either but for now I’m happy with the change…

  3. rottenjorge says:

    i hate it it covers to much of her body it sukkkkkksssssssssss, thats my reason plain and simple it covers her body and its hot out

  4. cballsack says:

    This poll needs more options. “Yes, it’s about time for a change, but no, I’m still not gonna read it.”

    Stop messing with the origin and creating these alternate timelines. I already went through that hell with Star Trek.

    • rush says:

      I agree. None of those options comes close what I’m thinking.

      • Tell me rush, what ARE you thinking? Elliott

      • rush says:

        A choice between SUCKS! and ROCKS!

        • Pfeh. Sounds like you’re saying ‘meh’ to me. πŸ˜‰ Elliott

          • Luiz de Mello says:

            Me thinks that rush thinks like me, that a costume change for WW is needed/desirable/something-like-that and that this costume has some good elements, but just a moderate ‘look and feel’ because it also has some poor elements that makes this particular incarnation.

            It is like a kind of meh, but not the ‘mehhhh, whatever, I don’t care anyway’, it is more like a bah, ‘bah, aimed at the head, hit the shoulder, still a miss just a lesser one’. Forgive me if that is not what you meant rush, but that is what I would vote πŸ˜›

    • Elliott needs to stop doing these polls. He always picks the worst options. No choice reflects my opinion either. πŸ˜›

      J.

      • Insideman says:

        In TOTAL agreement!

        Why: “SUCKS! Why did they change it? I won’t read her now!”?

        Why not: “SUCKS! Why did they change it? I’ll keep an open mind and keep reading, at least for now?”

        • In other words, give you guys a chance to answer without answering. Yeah, I’ll stop with the polls cuz you guys seem to have no balls to answer the hard questions.

          So suck on that beetches!

          πŸ˜‰

          Elliott

          • cballsack says:

            Never question my balls.

            All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don’t break them for no one.

          • Insideman says:

            How is “SUCKS! Why did they change it? I’ll keep an open mind and keep reading, at least for now?” a chance to answer without answering?

            THIS answer would be the definition of THAT: “SUCKS! Why did they change it? But I’m gonna continue reading because I don’t want to have any HOLES in my run. (Call me a ZOMBIE.)”

            πŸ˜‰

            I actually was reacting more to the subject of the answer– because, as you note below in another response Elliott– people are upset with the fact that JMS changed almost everything about the character/book… Not just the costume. I could see people TRYING a book over a costume change controversy (Black Suit Spidey anyone?) but I don’t see many long-term collectors/readers dropping a title over a costume change… Unless, of course, they are also closet aficionados of “Project Runway”– and fashion is just their “thang”. πŸ™‚

            • The changes JMS made aren’t as drastic as the totem bs.

              SPOILERS:

              Here’s what the JMS story deals with. It is an alternate reality. The time stream has been changed and Wonder Woman needs to figure out who is behind it and why they changed it. Her “new” origin is only for this new timeline. Once the story ends I am pretty sure things will revert back to normal…I hope.

              I just wanted to let you on on what’s happening with the story so far in case you didn’t know yet.

              J.

              • Insideman says:

                Thanks, Jose. So then, really, what’s the big deal?

                • Exactly. I am hoping to have a small piece about the costume change done in the next day or so.

                  In the long run it won’t mean anything but I love the fact that everyone on the internet is talking about Wonder Woman. To me THAT is what matters.

                  J.

                  • Insideman says:

                    And, as I was alluding to in another post– Promotion Job well done, DC.

                    They need to hype WW every once in awhile… IF anything to keep their merchandising partners interested.

                    If they also end up making good comics too– that’s an unusual bonus for comic book fans.

          • Insideman says:

            And while I VOTED for the FIRST choice (even though it did not entirely reflect my opinion), I will further cement my position as a guy who seems “…to have no balls to answer the hard questions.” by stating I WILL still be reading the book– as I have been reading WW in HC and Trade format for years.

            However, I will tell you this: If JMS retcons everything to the point that he introduces a tale where Ares forces himself on Wonder Woman– and she begets heretofore unknown twin children (say, more adult-skewing versions of Zan and Jayna from “Super Friends”)– I am SO outta here.

            The ONLY thing that STOPPED me from dropping Amazing Spider-Man after the Gwen/Norman Osborn children fiasco? I was reading trades and was a couple of years behind in my reading. If I had been reading current floppies at the time, I would have wiped my ass with that issue and never even thought of Spider-Man until JMS left the title… Which, in retrospect– given “Brand New Day” and the subsequent stories– would have been a very poor decision.

            • How would you have felt if the twins were Gwen/Peter’s like originally intended?

              J.

              • Insideman says:

                Gwen has always been my ultimate comic book virgin… Which, to me, makes her death on that bridge seem all the MORE TRAGIC… That she wasn’t able to live a full, varied life (both in terms of longevity and her lost “life” experiences and feelings– including any sexual adventures/feelings she may have missed out on).

                I’m not saying Pete didn’t get to third base– and possibly further… I just don’t know if he was regularly hitting “homers”– if you know what I mean.

                Make of that what you will. πŸ˜‰

                Other, more recent “untold” stories written while Gwen was alive have tried to portray her as more of a swinger like Mary Jane… and I am not buying that either.

                So, I would have been only SLIGHTLY LESS upset if the twins were Gwen and Peter’s– like originally intended.

                If I ever chose to accept that storyline as “canon” (which I just can’t bring myself to do)– sullying Gwen would put Norman Osborn at the #1 spot on my Most Hated Villain Hit Listβ„’… Forget anything else the bastard has done.

          • Insideman says:

            I should also state since this was the FIRST EVER CCW Poll I have ever ACTIVELY participated in… It was entirely and supremely dickish of me to cast any derisive comments toward Elliot’s Poll Writing Skills… Heretofore known as Elliott’s “PWS” (not be confused with Elliott’s “PMS”– like his “So suck on that beetches!” comment might have been labeled.)

            πŸ˜‰

            mea culpa

          • Insideman says:

            I should also state since this was the FIRST EVER CCW Poll I have ever ACTIVELY participated in… It was entirely and supremely dickish of me to cast any derisive comments toward Elliot’s Poll Writing Skills… Heretofore known as Elliott’s “PWS” (not be confused with Elliott’s “PMS”– like his “So suck on that beetches!” comment might have been confused with.)

            πŸ˜‰

            mea culpa

  5. Matthew Guy (mguy1977) says:

    I loved the deep cleavage WW bustier on Wonder Woman. If they want to give her an ambassador look again in the “new” outfit that is fine. But I enjoy eye candy in the Wonder Woman title. I have been buying Wonder Woman since vol. 3 of the series started, if the change it too much then I will drop the book.

    I heart the eye candy art damnit.

    Matthew

  6. it needs a forth option “should her boobs be bigger in the new costume” they do always give her amazing clevage

  7. NoEmoDaredevil says:

    I think the jacket is unnecessary, but other than that I don’t mind the change. It’s not like it’ll last very long anyway. Probably just another way to hype JMS coming onto the book in case people forgot due to Superman 700.

  8. rush says:

    I can do without the jacket and the head band should be thinner and bit more intricate.

    • Mike F says:

      I don’t mind the jacket really. It reminds me of ANIMAL MAN. I always felt Heroes would look cooler in jackets rather than capes. I fucking hate capes man. They just look dumb.

      ONE thing I will really miss, is the boots. I FUCKING LOVED WONDER WOMAN’S BOOTS! IDK why they were just mad cool to me. I was planning on buying them for my gf, but I feared she’d leave me for asking her to “kinda” cosplay 😦

      • Luiz de Mello says:

        I like capes, but when used right. Capes have a feel subtle meanings to it, it is worth using WHEN that meaning is needed, and only then, in other moments it should either be in the closet or at least not stand out in the picture. And definitely not for every hero too, would just kill the characterization of someone like Booster Gold or Animal Man.

        And about WW jacket, yes, I mind it. Or rather, I mind it over whatever-you-call-that-thing she is wearing under it. When she moves and you see that the piece under the jacket is more revealing it looks like when a woman wears party cloth, but covers it with a jacket or something else just to cover the revealing parts, since it would not be appropriate to work with all that skin showing (or at least the company’s culture believes it is inappropriate). If you hang around with (certain) women it kind of become natural to look at the jacket and feel it should not be there, that it is not part of the (party) outfit.

        BTW, I would buy those boots anyway and get a new GF if she doesn’t wear them! Playing superhero is fun, ohhh lots of fun doing that. Even better playing WW, just get a Golden Laso and… er… okay, I will stop sharing my fantasies πŸ˜‰

        • Mike F says:

          Haha, I figured she wouldn’t know right away they were Wonder Woman’s boots if I bought them for her, but still, secretly making my GF cosplay seems even more wrong than openly doing it >< hah

  9. generaldark says:

    its fine, im just not reading it cause its a reboot. there where more storys they could have told just fine with out this.

  10. Mike F says:

    This new costume matches better, looks more reasonable, but still has a sexy side even tho its shows more maturity. I am quite pleased with it. But retconning? I don’t think so… PLEASE don’t re-write the origin… pleaseeeeeeeeeeee dccccc why must you always do that shittttt

  11. Blanchard says:

    The costume looks fine to me but I’ll have to wait to see how the story goes. Either way I’m going too miss Gail Simone. I think she’s been the best writer on Wonder Woman since Greg Rucka.

  12. mattcd42 says:

    I like the look, plus as JMS said β€œWhat woman only wears only one outfit for 60-plus years?”

    But if we’re gonna talk about what she could go without… well there are OTHER sites for that…

    • Insideman says:

      Come on, JMS’ comment, “What woman only wears only one outfit for 60-plus years”– If he said this in response to her costume change is, well… ridiculous and somewhat flippant.

      (Always the danger with random quotes… You don’t know if they mean the same thing taken out of context.)

      Has 60 plus years passed in Wonder Woman’s eyes in the current DCU? Or has she been around like 10 or 20 years (if even that) based on their current continuity?

      Whatever happened to “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it?”
      If I wanted Wonder Woman to look like one of the X-Men from the first X-Men movie… You get the idea.

      • Just read WW #600. This costume is temporary. Looks like it will only be used for this storyline.

        J.

      • The book doesn’t sell, so I guess if you need a definition of ‘broke’ there it is.

        Elliott

        • Insideman says:

          Actually Elliott, the book has NEVER sold.

          I mentioned on here before that I had someone on high at DC tell me, matter-of-fact, that the Wonder Woman COMIC BOOK has NEVER made money for DC (at least since the 60’s)– and was only being published for the royalties associated with merchandising the ONLY recognizable FEMALE superhero in the WORLD.

          If DC can’t be seen as making an effort to promote the character… Why would their merchandising partners be interested?

          In short, without merchandising– the Wonder Woman comic would cease to exist in a heartbeat.

          As far a “broke”? I don’t think the origin is “broke” (it is what it is) and the fact that the costume HAS existed for 70 years with basically only a few minor tweaks here or there (one or two horrific short-lived “make-overs” excepted)… Is also a testament to its’ popularity (as limited as that may be).

          Changing the costume and the origin is only going to make for a short term sales bump (and controversy)– if any. Mucking about with these two areas is NOT going to “fix” sales or the book.

          LONG TERM standout writing and art (given how long the character has wallowed in various stages of neglect or reveled in the attention of short term revivalists)– COUPLED WITH THE PROPER PROMOTION– are the only things that are going to “fix” this book, this character… and its sales.

  13. Stamps says:

    I voted Meh. I’ve never really wanted to read WW so my interest level is little to none. JMS is great though so overall I want WW to do well for him. Babylon 5 is one of my favorite all time shows so he gets my support forever.

    • Thanks for being honest, Stamps. So much tap dancing going on around here. And all this coddling by Mr. Melendez. Who woulda thought that he’d be the ‘good cop’?

      LOL!

      Elliott

      • rush says:

        It’s one of the signs of the apocalypse. The Mayans predicted this.

        • Luiz de Mello says:

          Normally I would agree with ya, but I think this case it is a false alarm, Mr. Melendez is playing the good cop to antagonize E., he is stealing Es role to make him uncomfortable and out of place. Go for the eye J! *gets more popcorn and soda*

      • Stamps says:

        No problem Elliott

  14. mattcd42 says:

    Also I thought of this…

  15. DidioForever says:

    I think it’s fucking cool

  16. Locusmortis says:

    Holy fuck, all this hoopla over a fucking costume change, this kind of shows how retarded comicbookdom can be sometimes.

  17. phil says:

    The more that I see the costume, the less that I like it. I’m convinced now that Lee did not bring his A game on this costume because he knew that it wouldn’t last. I still believe she needs a new set of threads though

    • So you’re saying that you’ve been reading the book and now you’re gonna drop it, Phil?

      Elliott

      • Locusmortis says:

        I think they should have put ammo pouches on her trousers, that would have been cool…

        • rush says:

          Get Rob Leifeld to draw it and you will have more ammo pouches than you’ll know what to do with and as a bonus she have those really tiny feet he’s so famous for.

      • phil says:

        “I’ll take..what’s E talking about for 400, Alex” πŸ™‚

        If I might bo so Brave or on second thought, Bold …might I ask what was there in my comment that brought foth that question/snark?

        I don’t really know howto respond to something that I never said, inferred, implied, i etc. etc., but I’ll give it a shot.

        I have read WW sporadically. The latest having been the Heinberg/ Dodson run

        As far as JMS’ run goes…best case scenario, the writing is great, the art is great, therefore the book is great, and I’m hooked.

        Doesn’t mean I have to like the costume, though πŸ™‚

  18. Constantanius says:

    I posted this to Elliot’s page on Facebook, but felt I need to post it here as well.

    I love the new costume. People need to realize that people were not reading her book.(Yes there were a few but lets be honest her numbers were dropping monthly) So why all of a sudden do we have people coming out of the word work bitching and whining about the costume change? Where were the masses when no one was BUYING her books. Downloaders need to get a grip on reality and realize their opinion does not matter!

    Rene

  19. 8-bit Emma says:

    At first I had no idea what to think and then I actually READ the issue and it worked for me beautifully. I love it. I love the old one too, but I like where they are taking the series.

  20. Edward2962 says:

    Because I respect the history of the character,I want WW to do well,so if this results in positive attention then great.

    I’ll probably pick it up but it won’t be because of the costume change.It’ll be to see where JMS might take the character.But I don’t understand why there’s an alleged controversy specially from comics fans over a costume change we all know will be temporary.

    Hell,folks can’t even stay dead in superhero comics.

  21. Insideman says:

    I love how the Christian Science Monitor is subtly hailing Wonder Woman #600 as a victory for chaste because she is now wearing pants.

    PLEASE NOTE THIS ARTICLE HAS TONS OF SPOILERS:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0630/Wonder-Woman-to-finally-start-wearing-pants

  22. Mike F says:

    Damn, I feel like I’m the only one of my comic friends who likes the new outfit… I love the old one, I just hate repetition every now and then. I hope it stays at least for a few issues. But if it goes back to the original that’s fine with me too.

    • Insideman says:

      Like I wrote above Mike… The new costume ain’t gonna stop me from continuing to buy the book.

      • TheGateJester says:

        True dat. The only thing I would nitpick about is that it looks like WW got a boob job in addition to the new threads

    • Luiz de Mello says:

      You know, now that I actually read the isue the costume I kinda of like it now. In fact I only half disliked it in that pursuit scene (that we see on those previews) where she is fighting and then you see that the shirt below apparently is more revealing than it looks at first, giving me that sensation that the jacket is just there to cover an ‘inappropriate for the occasion’ piece that I said before. But it seems that in this particular scene it was a mistake by the colorist. Looking again at the original design I notice that those parts are actually red like the shirt. And the dark blue pants (which I thought were black) were nicely played too.

  23. Morlock50 says:

    Okay, my two cents.

    Awhile ago, I posted in response to the news that P.I. was to be destroyed that JMS was recycling old ideas. Well, let it never be said that I’m not man enough to admit when I was wrong. I fucking love the new costume design, as well as the direction that JMS has indicated he wants to go with this story. Having a hard retcon as part of the story is brillant and does not invalidate Perez or any creator that has gone before. Now, Wonder Woman is my favorite superhero (or heroine) so I was fine with the costume, and I liked the invisible jet, the purple ray, the kangras, and all those kitchy elements. But the fact is that alot of people, especially non-WW fans, didn’t. And if you look at the iconic costume, without bias, it is definately one of the least practical to wear in a fight. Now, Superman has an impractical costume too, but Wonder Woman has always been presented as a master battle technician, who has “The Art of War” committed to memory. It doesn’t make sense that this kind of character would go on a mission with a costume that exposes so much of her body (making it vunerable to attack–not for modesty’s sake) or one where her breasts would pop out in the middle of a struggle. It doesn’t make sense for the character not to change her costume voluntarily to make it as practical as possible in a fight. And this costume does. In JMS interview in CBR, he explains exactly why he changed each part of the costume so that it makes sense.
    .
    I think JMS is appoaching WW in the same way Morrison approached the X-men when he took over. He’s not writing for the current fans; he wants to attract non-comic book readers, and comic fans who were just not into her. He has listened to all the complaints about WW, (she’s too perfect, I don’t like mythology, she’s too preachy, she can’t relate to ordinary humans) and has attempted to address this with this story. As Elliott has pointed out, this book has sold very poorly for awhile now. I don’t expect WW to sell Batman numbers on a monthly basis, but when Supergirl, Zantanna, and Batgirl are kicking this book’s ass, then something needs to be changed. There is no reason why Wonder Woman should not sell as much as the new Batwoman (45 – 50 k) a month.

    • DidioForever says:

      Agreed on all points

    • TheRichestManinTown says:

      I think the reason why X-Men and Batman are more popular than Wonder Woman is because readers can relate to them. Anyone could be a mutant or a masked crime fighter. What can normal people be in relation to Wonder Woman? Why do I want her around (Other than not wanting to be surrounded by nothing but dudes)?

      • Morlock50 says:

        Well, I’m not sure how someone can truly relate to Batman (head of mulitnational corporation who can bang any woman in Gotham he wants, and has a crime-fighting hobby in his spare time). But Batman and X-men and Spiderman are exceptional cases that seem to sell regardless of the quality of the stories. I think that Wonder Woman being part of THE TRINITY paradoxically hurt her as a character because she is being compared to the World’s Finest as opposed to Powergirl and Storm, which are fairer comparisons. And there is no reason why Storm, Ms. Marvel, or She-Hulk always have to be more popular than Wonder Woman. I think the goal should be to make WW the highest selling female superhero solo book in the industry, and JMS seems to be trying to do this.

        • Insideman says:

          I agree with almost everything you wrote Morlock– EXCEPT that being part of the Trinity of Super Heroes at DC somehow hurt Wonder Woman’s character.

          Diana has proven over and over, time and again that she has more spine and more strength in her convictions– than either Bruce or Clark.

          For example, snapping Maxwell Lord’s neck comes to my mind… Regardless of the consequences.

          IMO, DC really failed to take advantage of a promotional platform for WW with that piss-poor 52 Week “Trinity” series. Even reading that in trade form (and not having to wait for the weekly release)– I found that book to be insufferably bad. Such a total failure, in fact, that I quit reading the whole story about 2/3rds of the way through the FIRST trade collection– even though I had ALREADY PURCHASED the other 2 trades. (What a massive waste of money!)

          I kept FORCING myself to read the book and I finally thought, “Why am I forcing myself to read this? Isn’t life too short?” So, yeah that was yet another BIG MISS on DC’s part to bring WW some new readers.

          • Morlock50 says:

            Wow, that sucks I-man. But I’ve been there too; buy a trade that turns out to be shit and a waste of money. In fact, the last time that happened was when I bought the WW Second Genesis and Lifeline trades. It’s John fucking
            Byrne, thought I, how can I go wrong? Well, I managed to muddle through the
            worst Wonder Woman stories I’ve ever read. The art was so unprofessional, that I began to question why God gave me eyes.

            I thought of getting the Trinity trades too, but I flipped through them and noticed that THE BIG THREE ARE HARDLEY IN THE STORIES! Looks like I dodged a bullett there.

        • TheRichestManinTown says:

          Notice I wrote, “masked crime fighter” and not Batman. It’s the same appeal that The Question has or Cassie Hack and a majority of other comic book characters. They’re all normal people until they decided to change their world.

          It’s rather interesting that you would question why Storm and She-Hulk are more popular than Wonder Woman.
          Storm was an X-Man, she’s a normal person who through her genetic make up was gifted with power, she has to live in a world where she is seen as a threat because she is different.
          She-Hulk is a shy person who gets pushed around by criminals until she gets a blood transfusion from Bruce Banner which gives her Hulk powers.
          Wonder Woman comes from paradise and fights monsters.

          JMS does seem to be going into the right direction with destroying Paradise Island and putting the Amazons among regular people. It would be awesome if he added in the dream like elements from Wednesday Comics where she could travel anywhere in her dreams and speak with animals.

      • Stamps says:

        Yeah you make a great point RichestMan. Hell, with enough money, dedication, and charm even I could be a Batman…well batgirl anyway πŸ™‚ lol

  24. Edward2962 says:

    I think part of the “problem” with WW is all the conflicting cultural baggage surrounding the character.Many ppl react to what they THINK the character is about instead what’s in the actual comics.Ppl think she’s lame or boring based on the old Superfriends show (Aquaman has the same problem).Or they think she’s a “feminist” and they bring the issues they have w/feminism to the character.

    When we were kids,we had similiar issues w/Superman.”He’s too powerful to be interesting”,”He’s too much of a Goody-2-Shoes”. Then Byrne rebooted the character and DC was able to hype the event in a way that made ppl shake off their prejudices and give the book a chance.Hopefully,that’ll happen in this case, but DC has to REALLY push it.Not just to the comics fans,but also to the general public.

    • Heck says:

      I agree with this post.

      It’s all in the writing and the marketing. Aquaman can totally be a badass if handled well. Wonder Woman has the potenial to be just as popular as Superman and Batman, she just needs a bigger push.

      Bryne was able to rebuild Superman in a way that made him fascinating and relatable. It took Johns the same amount of time to tear all that away.

      • cballsack says:

        Totally agree. Aquaman is so underrated. Nobody makes jokes about Namor even though they’re basically the same character, with the same weakness (can’t stay away from water for too long). Aquaman can’t fly but he definitely has Namor’s strength. The difference is writing. Namor’s always been portrayed as a badass. Aquaman’s still living down his Superfriends “talking to fish” shtick.

  25. kurumais says:

    i choose the meh choice but i do like the new look im just not going to be buying /reading her book

  26. kurumais says:

    you guys never read peter david’s aquaman did ya?

    • phil says:

      if he did two fisted A man, no
      If he did harpoon handed A man, a little
      If he did watered hand A man, no

      • kurumais says:

        he did harpoon hand aquaman one of my favorite runs on any book
        badass all the way
        read the superboy issue its a nice encapsulation of peter david’s take on AM

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