CCW 3.68: LAST RANTS! AVENGERS #2 REVIEW & How it can kill comic shops!
Posted: July 2, 2010 in CCW Nation, CCW OpEd, CCW Rant Review, CCW Review, CCW TV, Geek Culture, Last Rants, Marvel, Not Really a Review, Opinion, Reviews, Top 25 Comics, WTFTags: Avengers, Brian Bendis, Douchebaggery, Horse Shit, Long Ass Video, Nerd Nitpicks, Seriously This is a Long Fucking Video
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The CCW*TV Companion Blog 
Did I here podcast? Very cool, I look forward it.
I have to agree with what Elliot said about fans buys books based on some emotional attachment to creators and/or characters. I have mentioned this in previous post, this is madness. If we want better comics WE have to make it happen. As long as we elevate subpar comics to number one status we will continually be plagued by them. Great show fellas.
When I was much younger I’d stay with comic books through awful storylines. It wasn’t until the price went up to $2.25 that I finally had enough. I don’t know why anyone would still support a 4 dollar book that’s awful.
Ive been buying up alot of trades recently because of their low prices. No joke but the other day i had the chance to buy Ultimate Origins #1 with Bendis’s autograph on it for $8 but i decided my money is better off being spent on something else. It makes no sense that Stark is poor plus he sold the Avengers Mansion for $1 but in the second issue of Avengers #2 he has all the resources like the whole Stark dissembled arc didn’t happen. This is just shit that Bendis is screwing up the whole Marvel Universe for his own benefit. Plus Jose you are right i really want to punch the shit out of spider-man because his two or three lines of jokes in the avenger comics just lowers the character.
Jim Hanley’s Universe, a comic book store in NYC, has “25 Sundays.” Any back issue can be purchased for 25 cents, or you can show up with a box and fill it with as many comics as it will fit for 25 bucks.
I was in New York about 6 or 7 years ago. I stopped by Hanley’s while I was there. That IS a GREAT comic shop.
J.
It is nice, although they remodeled the place about 3-4 months ago. They don’t have nearly as many back issue bins as they used to, and they added so many more racks for trades. But that seems to be true everywhere.
It also seems like they have fewer toys too. Oh, and their “adult” section was reduced to like a third of what it was.
I didn’t make it to Hanleys when I was in NY last year, its up by the Empire State building right?
I did make it to Midtown comics on Times Square and Forbidden Planet off Union Square and they’re fairly impressive shops, Midtown moreso for trades and FP more for manga and action figures I’d say.
I wish people had seen Forbidden Planet back in the day. It was an absolutely wondrous store. They were located diagonally across the street from their current location. (That location is now a shoe store.) That store was two huge floors and they had soooooooooooooo much stuff, it’s not even funny. From comics to toys to apparel to games to sci-fi/fantasy books… they just had everything, and lots of it. Every time my parents took me there was like Christmas Day.
Midtown Comics is probably where I shop the most since I have an account there. They actually have two locations in NYC. Good store. Hanley’s is also good. And the other big comic shop in NYC is St. Mark’s Comics, located on St. Mark’s Street in the East Village. They currently have the biggest selection of back issues of any store in NYC.
If you’re back in NYC again and find yourself at Forbidden Planet, go down one block to Strand’s Bookstore. They’re one of the largest discount bookstores, probably on the planet. They have a decent selection of trades, all at discounted prices. Most cost around 4 to 5 bucks.
The Forbidden Planet store in LA closed down well over 15 years ago. It seemed to have all kinds of characters roaming around in it. I saw director John Landis and other crazies in there often. Little known fact: James “Starman” Robinson was the “transplanted” manager of the store for the few years it was in existence. In truth, it was never all that customer friendly.
How long have you lived in LA?
Living between LA and NYC for quite a while (since I was a young teenager). With an occasional misdirection to London too.
Cool. You jet setter you 🙂
Yeah I got a tip off to go to Strands….unfortunately that was already after we’d left NY. Anyways hope to make it back soon. I have to say that the people in Midtown couldn’t have been nicer, FP was ok except for the dopey security guards wanting to take our stuff before going into the shop.
The FP in Dublin is pretty decent but single issues here are just way way too expensive. A $2.99 comic costs about the equivalent here of about $4.15. Even including UPS shipping I can get stuff shipped in from the dcbs for about $2.80. Diamond/Titan distribution and VAT really ramps up the price here.
That sounds nice so i can be new to the store and i can show up with a box and fill it for $25. Do they have any old batman comics?
I didn’t take note of everything they had.
I might just stop by there since im going to the NY Comic Con in October
Well, it’s easy to find. It’s literally across the street from the Empire State Building.
That would probably explain why when one of Spidey’s enemies kick the s**t outta him none of the other Avengers show up to get his back. 😉
Another reason why Spidey being on the ‘world’s mightiest heroes’ makes little to no sense.
Elliott
Love the part about examining your passion and not judging us who love comics.
Dead on fellas, I could never understand how a sports fan could mock someone of another hobby when it’s just as silly to whine over how much Lebron James is gonna make as a free agent as it is to whine over Peter Parker being married to MJ.
Another bang up job!
It cracks me up to listen to sports radio in Chicago. The hosts and the callers are always ripping on the teams, criticizing and saying the craziest s**t about the Bears, Bulls, Soc and (especially) the Cubs.
If there was comic talk radio the same as there was sports talk radio, the editors at Marvel and DC would have strokes!
Elliott
If you ever wanted to see a fan at his craziest, you should have seen me in 2004. I was a diehard Knicks fan, and that was the year that the Knicks were in the finals against the Houston Rockets. NBC interrupted one of the games to broadcast OJ’s infamous white Bronco chase. I was livid. They were showing that crap on every fucking station, even the spanish channels! I wanted my game back. So somehow I was able to get the number for NBC Sports and I called up and let loose a stream of expletives demanding that they put the game back on. To her credit, the person on the other end of the phone let me speak without hanging up.
Trying to think what a comic book could do to produce that same reaction in me. Maybe if Dr. Doom raped Aunt May.
It’s all about Passion as you stated.
You suggest an interesting idea Elliot, comics talk radio.
There are a few comics talk podcasts, but I don’t know of any radio shows where people can call in. That’s not to say that they don’t exist, I just haven’t heard of them yet.
Elliott
This show has occasionally been on WBAI, a station in NYC.
http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/
I think they are defunct.
I’ve listened to a few podcasts, most tend to be sycophantic. They try not to piss anyone off. It would be nice to have a comics show with the acerbic wit of the Daily Show.
I feel your pain about Spider-Man Jose he was one of my favorite characters growing up, that is one reason I gave up on the character, but here is another:
http://themspot1313.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/random-comic-book-thought-4/
I somewhat enjoyed the first issue,but Avengers#2 sucked.Nothing happened and when it did it had nothing to do with the story he setup in the first one.Can someone tell me why Wonderman is mad at the Avengers?Why does he think they will ruin the world?Has he seen the future or what?Does he hate other superhero teams?And why are they dealing with Wonderman anyway?What about the story he setup in the previous issue?Not to mention Tony Stark’s HUGE continuity problem.Wolverine had only one line and did nothing for the rest of it.The characters aren’t defined at all.They all feel the same to me.And dear God why are they dealing with the horseman of Apocalypse now.What about the story he setup in the previous issue?It feels like he is just pulling things out of his ass and putting shit on the page.And what was with all the talking.I mean come on.It’s like Bendis feels like he has to shove a joke in every few seconds.I don’t even think Thor was talking in oldspeak that much(I remember one time)either.I can’t believe Marvel has him as their top writer and charge us $4 for his excrement.Like I said I somewhat enjoyed the first issue,but this was total garbage.
At least Spider-Man did something unlike Wolverine.
Did Wolvie at least burp?
He ate pizza,said one line and got his ass kicked in one punch by Wonderman.Come to think of it I don’t think he even ate pizza.
Don’t worry Elliot your problems with this book are far from nitpicks.Man is it fun to hear you guys bash books.Does that make me a bad person?
Great rant as usual guys. (And thanks for the shout out!)
Elliott, as you noted– B&N did have a ton of super cheap books in that sale. (Hell, I hit it TWICE and it may still be going on.)
But as a regular reader– and WEEKLY buyer of hardcovers and trades– I can also attest that there are a TON of these books (especially HARDCOVERS) that go OUT OF PRINT if you don’t buy them in a timely fashion… And they don’t get reduced in price anymore than say– the average floppy does– during their brief appearances “in print”. Coincidentally, Jose and I briefly discussed this very issue on the Open Thread earlier this afternoon.
Still your point is WELL TAKEN Elliott. There are a TREMENDOUS number of cheap trades to be had from many sources. Case in point: If you are a BAMM Club Member, you can buy many trades/hardcover at Books-A-Million for up to 34% Off. If you spend a $100, you can ALWAYS find coupons for $20 off a $100 purchase (or $10 off a $50 purchase) all over the internet. This takes another 20% off the purchase… Meaning you can buy some trades and hardcovers for as much as 54% Off– and all you have to do is spend a little more cash to do so. (Which you would eventually end up doing anyway.)
Me? I buy 99.9% of my books from my comic shop… Because I get almost as good a deal… But MOST importantly, I am supporting people I like and respect that love and support a medium I love (unlike a big bookstore chain that will just glom onto any genre that makes them money)… And the fine folks at my comic shop go to GREAT PAINS to send me all my books every week in PERFECT CONDITION (which mainstream bookstores NEVER do).
I’d much rather pay a little more for a book in PERFECT SHAPE than risk paying less for a book arriving in very good to fine shape.
You are also absolutely right when you state that continuity is really what keeps people coming back to the shops every week.
If a writer like Bendis ceases to care about the overall continuity that is being “maintained” in Marvel comics– and chooses to write only the “Bendis Version” of the Marvel Universe– he is throwing a LOT of BAD PRECEDENT out there. When the #1 comic writer doesn’t care about continuity in the #1 selling book– the CASUAL READER certainly has the right to ask, “Then why should I?”
As you both know, usually once you lose the casual reader at retail– they NEVER come back. When you ask an ex-casual comic reader why they don’t read comics anymore– WATCH HOW THEY REACT. They normally shrug their shoulders and mumble that they just lost interest. Why? Because they didn’t BOND with the characters. Why? Because there is barely any continuity in comics anymore.
I did not know about the disparity between Tony Stark’s portrayal in his solo title and the way Bendis has him acting in Avengers. When I heard you guys discussing that I just started shaking my head violently back & forth. THAT IS SHAMEFUL.
And you know what? It is also EXTREMELY DISRESPECTFUL to MATT FRACTION and ANY OTHER comic book writer that is charged with writing an Avenger’s SOLO, standalone, single character book.
You’d think– as the #1 man in sales– Bendis would have the time and courtesy to telephone the current writers of characters that he may be SHOWCASING in his team booka– but NO. He prefers to just destroy any continuity between Avengers books and the solo books with inconsistent portrayals.
Blame Bendis for sure– but the TRUE blame falls squarely on Joey Q and Dan Buckley… Who should be FORCING the accepted continuity onto these pampered poets. If the BOSS MEN don’t choose to do so– I don’t see how we can expect the writers to follow suit. Like I wrote twice before: Since Bendis is the #1 seller at Marvel… Maybe he thinks it is the OTHER writers that should be consulting with HIM.
Like I also wrote before: It boils down to PROFESSIONAL COURTESY. Back in the not-so-distant past, writers used to have it amongst each other. Now the bigger ones seem like they could care less how their work might affect their fellow writers.
And you’re right: That is the TRUE “CRIME” here and the REAL SHAME.
I overall agree with ye, but I disagree about the true fault being JQs and the rest of editorial team. They are at fault, don’t get me wrong, but both parts are equally. When I work if my boss doesn’t tell me to do the right thing, and doesnt oblige me to do the right thing, it is his fault for letting me to the wrong thing freely, but it is also mine for doing it, even if not forced to do right I could have done right nonetheless.
Just saying, it is a train wreck, there is a lot of fault for everyone.
I saw Stephen King’s “N” a 4-issue mini-series($3.99 per isse) in a 112 page premiere hardcover format with no extras. The retail price is $24,99
That is almost $10 more then the single issues.
You pay $2 more per single issue
Normally you pay $1 more per single issue when buying a hardcover.
A lot of trades and hardcovers you can buy at discounts .
Just some examples of discounts i found:
Dark Avengers prem hc $9 ($25)
Secret Warriors prem hc $7 ($20)
Astonishing X-Men Ghost Box HC $11 ($30)
My experience is that the discounted books, are somewhat the older stories.
If you have the patience, in the end you will be able to accumulate a lot of series.
But not all of them. There are some good books that can go out of print, so I reccomend to not always wait to buy till they are discounted.
I am pretty sure that Stephen Kings “N”” overpriced hardcover will be discounted in a year or so.
Also. Thanks guys, for another delicious Bendis Bash. I am really dissapointed in the Heroic Age. I’m really enjoying Thunderbolts and Atlas, Secret Avengers is ok, but Bendis Avengers books are indeed dangerous to read. I told myself to pick up the first arc of Bendis Avenger books, but to protect the avenger and comic-fanboy in me, i will have to drop these books right now!.
I still have some holes in the early run to fill, so I will survive.
hackslash–Where did you see Stephen King’s “N” hardcover for sale? I thought it wasn’t being released until early October.
If $24.99 is the cover price– most cool comic stores will discount the book straight out of the box for anywhere from 25% to 40% off.
Insideman..i didnt see it for sale…oops.. cause thats not what I meant to say.
I saw it in the previews-book. The retail price published in there was $24,99
I’m wondering if this price increas will be seen more often.
Th Dutch-Comic market, a different one, works like this:
the big titles are in hardcover(15 euro) or softcover(7,5 Euro), depending on the publisher.
The publisher that chooses to publish their most popular titles solely in hardcover are trying to make a cashgrab. Then there are titles that only have 1000 copies in circulation. Those are in hardcover too, but that I can understand, otherwise the smaller publishers couldnt make it profitable.
hack/slash– With Stephen King’s high priced name attached to a book… You will most likely see that high price tag of $24.99 for a hardcover… As the companies attempt to maximize their investment.
Here in the US… Marvel is the leader with the MOST higher priced $24.99 hardcovers. DC is following close behind though… Quickly RAISING their $19.99 pirce per hardcover to $24.999 to match Marvel’s pricing.
As I mentioned in the last open thread– DC is releasing (3) Blackest Night hardcovers next week. Two of them (Blackest Night: Green Lantern Corps and Blackest Night: Green Lantern) are $24.99 and the main Blackest Night hardcover is $29.99!
Yowchie!
So the higher price for hardcovers– like the higher price for monthly comics… Is unfortunately here to stay.
The blackest night HC has 8 issues which originally were$3.99 each and the other books have the equivalent of 9 issues which were $2.99 each so they still cost less than the single issues which for a Hardcover book which is a much better presentation than single issues seems fair enough to me.
Also if you pre-ordered at somewhere like the DCBS (for example) the hardcovers where going for 40-50% off.
Nice review as usual..i just want to say that the guys who really ought to get the full blame for the continuity shit are the editors. i mean come on, these guys are paid specifically to over see that this kind of mishaps dont happen. they are the ones who should be like, ‘hey bendis, Tony Stark is broke now so this shit that you wrote aint flying’.
And its true that if bendis gets a sub par artist to handle his books he wouldnt get as many sales as he is enjoying right now.
i mean i dont know why he always gets the good artists (so as millar and loeb) why doesnt marvel give other writers that kind of love to. like for example, peter david. his x factor is awesome but my big problem with it is the artists. i guessing thats one of the major reasons that gets that book overlooked. im sure if marvel gets someone like immonen, coipel or romita to work on x factor, that book will really pick up in sales.
GOOD WRITERS DESERVE GOOD ARTISTS.
Oh well, as everyone said, very nice reviews and why not, rants. Me thinks that Marvels case can be nailed down to two things: one is that Marvel is no longer a house of ideas (from creators and artists), but the house of businessmen. If it sells and makes money it is good, if it ‘doesnt’ (read: milks the cow less than it can hypothetically be milked), then it is HORRIBLE, at least on their way of viewing things. The other thing is that though Marvel is the house of businessmen it is the house of retarded businessmen, and I don’t need to work there to see it. That guy who claimed that makes me wonder what he thinks about investigations by the police and forensic analyzes, after all criminologists were not in the crime scene when it happened (hopefully not!) so they should have no rights to comment on how it happened, but I digress.
People should have realized by now that Marvels greatest differential from other comic book companies back in the day was their strong shared universe, DC only years later started having some cohesion and even then it never got exactly fixed. The MU was a marketable character on its own. It was a huge novel. Now it is an abomination, a Frankenstein monster with sewed parts that simply does not match. And thinking on the forest rather than the trees, these hypes and exclusive focus on superstar writers and the lines they are working only hurts business in the long run. Comic books are just part of the business you know, as Yoggart would say “Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made”. Are these people brain damaged and can’t learn? They should worry to have more recognizable books and iconic characters than having one line doing extremely well in sales and everything else sucking.
Were Spiderwoman, Ms Marvel and other similar lines receiving more ‘love’ they could definitely become cartoons, and from that you get toys and all that sort of stuff that sells. Those two, and a lot of other minor characters from Marvel, are very interesting characters for cartoons. And what about all those Deadpool books? Why market him solely as comic books? Bet with you, he would reap much more money if they stopped one day to find a decent game company to produce some games centered on him. Don’t know if they would be good, but they would sell horrors. Horrors, I tell ya. And talking about games… the ‘new’ big thing for quite a while now… how many original games having a Marvel label have reached the shelfs lately? And I am not talking about adaptations of movies and cartoons that are only there to milk those cows, but real investments of Marvel ENTERTAINMENT in this so much lucrative sector.
Maybe I am missing out stuff, but for me that sounds like these ‘businessmen’ are not that much into doing business, more like into satisfying egos.
Not exactly PC but I would love a T-Shirt that read, “MARVEL: House of the Retarded Businessmen”.
Hey Jose, maybe Hart Fisher would like to take another stab at immortality!
Not so retard as they get our money on a regular basis.
Not mine, unless it is real good stuff. Rule of life #13: Never pay for shit. Never!
But still, they didn’t make Marvel what it is. Keeping franchises that can sell by themselves selling doesn’t require much, it would need royal amounts of stupidity to make that unprofitable. On my book they are just (lucky) retarded, it could be far worse 😛
Who’s more retarded the person getting money for crap or the guy buying it. 🙂
I am too mean to not call both stupid, for me its like they all are running on the special olympics, and you know how that saying goes 😉
Indeed. 🙂
I hate Marvel comics right now. Because the price of the comics right now, and your paying four dollars for terrible stories, and it makes me hesitate to buy Marvel books that I have heard are good. I guess I have to buy Secret Avengers. IDK. Indies are becoming the only worthwhile books these days. Great Rant guys!
Wow… a 36 minute rant… you guys are spoiling us 🙂
To me my all-time favorite Bendis book is, and will always be, Ultimate Spider-Man. I call USM my “gateway drug” into the comic book world. USM got me interested into collecting comics again. I had almost lost all my interest in collecting comics, but my friend had the USM video game and I thought, “You know what? I’ll try out this USM book and see if I like it.” Well I tried it out and fell in love with it immeadiately. As a teenager myself I really connected with that book. It always was a fun book and, for the most part, still is now. I have never been a fan of Bendis’ 616-Universe stuff.
I’m going to switch gears here. I grew up with Marvel Tales (which reprinted the old issues of Amazing Spider-Man). Every now and then I’d get an old issue of ASM. THAT is the Spider-Man I know and love. To see what Spider-Man’s character has become now (I like Dan Slott’s ASM, a lot) sickens me. I HATE what Marvel is doing to Spider-Man’s character. I HATED OMD. I loathed BND (again I liked the Slott stories). I hated Red-Headed Stranger and that awful Return of Black Cat story. I was extremely stoked for The Gauntlet. I finally got to see all of the classic villains that I grew up with. The Mysterio story was the only good one, and the rest of it was utter crap. Understand that all of this hatred comes from a place of love for the character of Spider-Man. I hope that someday I’ll be able to restore the character of Spider-Man much like what JMS and Dan Slott have done.
Dammit Bendis… come back to us…
Ok, to be fair I have enjoyed most of Joe Kelly and Mark Waid’s run. It’s just that right now to me anyway, Amazing Spider-Man sucks (I know some of you guys buy and enjoy ASM right now and for that I am sorry). I go crazy if someone writes Spider-Man in a totally uncharacteristic way. I didn’t like the decisions he made in Red-Headed Stranger and One More Day and Return of the Black Cat. I don’t plan to buy ASM again until Dan Slott comes on board again. God help me when OMIT starts…
yes, yes, YES!!! this is the review that ive been waiting for!!!
dont EVER stop stating the truth boys or im GONE.
and funny enough, i found that same Pulse trade that elliot did for 5 bucks (Canadian) at a hospital being sold by some old lady for a charity drive. i had no idea what it was and then saw bendis name on it so you know i passed. my one rule in life aside from you should always eat fruits beforehand if you plan on eating red meat is to not give bendis money. this man is the reason why i pirate comics. he has no consideration for the characters and theyre just cash cows in his eyes. not to mention his terrible, half though ideas and his constant “absorption” of characters that dont belong to him.
and you kept talking about how he writes his script. the thing is he doesnt even write scripts. i remember reading an interview with Matt Fraction himself and he stated that bendis is a barely literate mofo who writes his scripts on napkins and post-its. this is coming from fraction himself. so EFF bendis. EFF bendis so hard in his shiny bald headed ASS.
you guys are the true guardians of the galaxy. keep it the hell up!
LOL!
Thanks for the kind words Johnny, but just to clarify things, Fraction was most likely making a joke at Bendis’ expense. I’ve seen his scripts and he doesn’t write them on napkins and post-its.
Comic book writers like to bust on each other like that. That’s why you hear me ragging on John Layman all the time. He’s a great guy, a talented writer and a good friend. So of course I make fun of him. 😀
Thanks for watching,
Elliott
holy crap. elliot posted on here. my heart just skipped a beat.
aaah. i see i see. but you see how easily believable that statement can be.
and ya, i love when you guys make fun of your creator friends. fucking comedians the two of you are! keep at it and ill keep watching 🙂
Why do you eat fruits beforehand?
anyone else bummed about this saturday. first in a while i cant look forward to downloading new doctor who episodes.
Jose just gave me the last three episodes of the season and I’m gonna watch them all in one sitting so we can talk about it at the next session.
I’m also going to try to post more on the blog, vegedge, I just need to budget my time better. 😉
Elliott
understandable just messing with you!
Nah, too much good football on today lad, Argentian v Germany and Spain v Paraguay…fuckin magic!
Argentina v Germany was a great game! Spain v Paraguay just put me to sleep. Spain is gonna get their asses handed to them by the German team if they bring that game with them to the match. I’m gonna go against tradition and I’m rooting for Germany now. They play futbol the way it was meant to be played!
Elliott
Germany were awesome against Argentina but they are without Mueller in the next match. I reckon if Spain drop Torres and bring in Fabregas they’ll be a lot more direct and it should make for a fascinating match.
Holland v Uruguay will be a big load of meh, especially with Suarez out for that handball he commited against Ghana.
OK, my theories.
They’re making the stories the way they are (6 parters, tpb fodder ect) to appeal to the collectors out there. They’ll buy the comic as it comes out to hit that “Hipster Douchebag” part of the brains. “I got this when it came out. Nice Trade dude…” if you will. Because that will breed a comic buyer that isn’t as interested in the content.
Take a look at X-Men for the model. From the Siege Perilous to Muir Island Saga, there was NO continuity between issues. You had no idea if it was a Storm Issue, a Wolvie/Psylocke/Jubes Issue, a Peter Nicholas issue, a Dazzler issue, or a Jean Grey getting tentacles for arms issue. And people bought it. A LOT. And it continued. Other than major summer X-overs and tpb storylines, there was nothing connecting the story lines. Plots would be plopped in and dropped 2 issues later (3rd Summers Bro anyone?). AND PEOPLE BOUGHT IT.
And this has gone on for so long, people will buy X-men stuff no matter what is in there. I was at the comic store this week getting JSA (I luvs me some Obsideon, him and his dad bitching about the Twins vs the Mets was brilliant) and someone was bitching up a STORM over Second Coming and Fraption’s writing of it. WHILE HE WAS BUYING THE COMICS. Made me wish I had a background in Psychiatry so I could draw parallels to Battered Spouse Syndrome. “C’mon Baby. i can change. Next issue, I’ll give Rockslide 2 panels.”
I can truthfully say that I have not read one single X-men story that hasn’t been in hardcover or trade format for at least 4 years.
Given the bundling nature of the format and the fact that I wait awhile to read the trades so I can read stories in big arcs… You’d think I would be able to understand what was going on in the X-men books perfectly.
Nope. I don’t. Hardly a thing. The only time I seem to understand anything is when I read those 2 to 4 paragraphs at the beginning of each book TELLING what is supposed to be going on. I’m really going to have to stop buying this BS.
P.S. I absolutely agree with you Elliott when he says that the X-men is the supreme Marvel challenge to write. I remember reading a X-men book a couple of weeks ago by a particular writer thinking, “Damn! These characters have a very real ability to suck the CREATIVITY out of every single writer that gets wrangled into this job.” At the time, I was particularly dissatisfied with the stories of Mike Carey and Matt Fraction (to name just a few offenders).
It should be no surprise that the only writer that did not allow his personality be absorbed by the X-Men (in my recent experience) is Warren Ellis. Whether you liked “Ghost Box” or not… It was DEFINITELY written by Warren Ellis.
I meant to imply above that I have been reading X-Men books SOLELY in hardcover or trade format.
Joss Whedon’s run on Astonishing X-Men is excellent.
Cept for that whole “Let’s bring back someone who sacrificed himself to stop a virus that was killing everyone cause I can’t think of another of the hundreds of mutants with super strength to use.”
And the killing Kitty with the Ginourmous Phallic symbol.
And turning Emma from “Kick Ass Gen X” phase Emma into early FF “Yes, Reed dear” Emma. Ever take a look at a cat right after it’s been declawed and it tries to scratch something? Pathetic.
Comicbookdude… That was 6 or 7 years ago. I was talking about the last 4 years… Just a mess.
Oh, my bad. I didn’t realize that you were talking about the last four years… Y’see I’m currently reading his run/re-reading it, so in my mind right now it’s a few years recent. But, yeah I feel sorry for any X-fan. I even go on Wikipedia or some info. site and I STILL can’t make heads or tails of the X-Universe.
I figured. 🙂
What’s crazy… You WOULD think ERADICATING MILLIONS of Mutants off the face of the planet would make the goings-on easier to understand… NOT harder.
There are THREE THINGS I do know:
1) I am still at the point where Emma hasn’t figured out that Scott is now a prick and is sending X-Force out on kill missions. etc… And I do know this sub-plot has gone on ENTIRELY TOO LONG.
2)I know the Scarlet Witch will REVERSE her “No More Mutants” hex one day and then there will be WAY TOO MANY MUTANTS. (You watch.)
3)Wolverine will eat something in the next issue or two of the Avengers… and then burp.
That was my main problem with House of M. It just made everything 10 times more complicated because you have to tell several stories about how the mutant population is decreasing and how they can save it, etc. It’s too the point where I’m like, “Come on! I get it already! You’ve been telling this story for 5-7 years already! MOVE ON!” You know they’re running out of ideas when they have to stick to one basic plot for several years.
Not to completely rip on the X-Universe, but every once in a while you’ll get a great X-Men story (i.e. Joss Whedon and Warren Ellis’ stories). Also I enjoyed Morrison’s run on New X-Men. A bit too weird at times, but still good.
The X-Men has been shit since about Uncanny #278 and I should know, I stuck with it long enough.
Bring back Hardcase and the Harriers I say!
Provocative vid.On the future of comics retailers,I wonder if something might develope close to what happening to the music retailers.Where stores that sell top-40 CDs are hurting but stores that sell vinyl and used records are doing ok.The LCS may become the place not to get your latest Spidey fix,but solely where to find that missing issue of Submariner #26 or Strange Adventures or that page of original Gene Colon art. That is,a place for true comics collectors (not speculators).
I understand the emotional connection the the characters being a big factor in people following such titles as Avengers however, My favorite character is Thor, I follow his main title but there is no way I’m gonna pick up Avengers or Avengers prime, why? well cost is a factor but also i just dont see the need to overinduldge in him, his monthly is enough. Im not stupid enough to buy into the whole: ‘Oh look here comes your favortie character again!’ The only avengers book for me is Secret Avenger and thats how its going to stay, i have little to no interest in any other of the avengers lines.
A point you did raise about non of the characters fitting into there own continuity is just down right appalling, one would have thought that there would have been some form of communication in the office, i mean in this day and age it really isnt hard. As for the amount of time one writer spends on a book, i think this need to be looked at more closely in the future, everything does benefit from a breath of fresh air now and again.
Quick p.s; What do you guys think of the Doctor Who comics?
I’ve read a few, and like many licensed properties, they’re pretty hit-and-miss. It would be nice to see more comics by the writers of the show, kinda like Joss Whedon does with the Buffy books.
Elliott
PS I finally saw the last three episodes. Easily the best television I’ve seen this year.
Yeah, the only one I’ve read was The Forgotten and that was pretty decent. I’ve been thinking about that a lot latley, there seems to be so much scope for Doctor Who comics given the rich history and i to would love to see a say 13 issue series formated like the series with a big finnaly, each year you could do somthing diffrent with a diffrent Doctor.
This series I thought on a whole was ok if a bit dissjointed, but then again you have to take into account the change in production team and cast ect. so its going to throw things up the the air a little. I dont know how easy it is to get hold of the DVDs over there but I’d highly recommend ‘The Deadly Assasin’ a Tom Baker story from 1976, seriously top notch stuff for the time.
i thought the grant morrison once were alright. they seemed very weird and kinda off. for someone who is all about time shit and universal cosmic psycho stuff you would think he could write a more interesting Doctor who
I’ve read all the Doctor Who comics that have appeared in trade form. Like Elliott said, extremely hit-or-miss.
However, the CLASSIC Doctor Who trades? The ones that have been colored for the first time? THOSE ROCK. I love ’em!
Would you guys oppose me tweeting this video to Bendis himself? I really think he needs to see it… But if you don’t want me to, Its cool. I really wish he’d return to his ALIAS work or his TORSO work… Man…
Tweet all you want, he ain’t gonna watch it. 😉
Elliott
Haha, yeah but still, its the effort. Once he keeps getting tweets about why us big comic fans before his older work over his current horse shit he’s writing, he might one day actually listen..
What will make him consider is if his work doesn’t sell. Right now, he’s the top selling writer in comics. Why change when what you’re doing is working in today’s market?
Just saying,
Elliott
WELL, I’m trying to be an optimistic. I heard the urge in your voice about wanting to see the old Bendis back and sometimes that shit does in fact reach out to people. Your right, he won’t change and we’ll continue to watch him become the worst writer in history but I guess I’ll just try and be hopeful…
Just saying
Sorry if that sounded sarcastic or harsh. hah, the internet makes it a bit harder to communicate emotion >< but yeah, I sent the tweet and I'll continue to…
Hey, someone get in contact with Harlan Ellison! I just read Avengers #2 and the main plot point is a complete rip-off of the Star Trek storyline “City on the Edge of Forever” originally written by Ellison.
You know what Ellison is like, he’d sue the fucking ass of Bendis 😀
That would be awesome.
Ellison sued James Cameron over Terminator and won. lol
The only Avengers title I’m currently buying is Secret Avengers. I’ve dropped Avengers.
Harlan lives in a literal gully off a skinny Hollywood Hills road. The kids like to throw rocks on his roof. It drives Harlan crazy. I’m sure he’d sue the kids, too… but then again, if he could catch them, he’d probably beat the shit out of them.
I totally dig his house.
If you like shade, he has it… Which is at a premium (as you must know) even in the Hills.
I think it was in Back Issue magazine where I read a story from Ellison of how he was offered stolen Neal Adams artwork in exchange for some money and he met up with the “seller” and beat the shit out of him and gave the artwork back to Adams.
Ellison may be a ornery lawsuit-crazy sob but he does have a set of ethics that he sticks to.
that’s the best thing ive heard in a while. He just earned several points in my book.
i dont know who that is but thats the funniest shit that ive heard about in a while. sounds like something jose would do hheheh
Elliot,
When Brian said that he wasn’t reading anyone else’s books he was being facetious, it wasn’t a serious comment. But you guys raise a lot of legitimate points, lots of which do describe a formulaic approach to the Avengers books.
Somehow New Avengers, while not great, still manages to be the better read and I think he should have just stuck to that book while someone else takes the Avengers.
Well then, Bendis just lost his only excuse for disregarding what the other writers are doing with the characters he shares in The Avengers.
Again, the Tony Stark deal is pretty glaring, but hey, he’s the #1 writer in comics right now, so I guess he can do whatever he wants.
Elliott
No you’re right, Brian’s take on Iron Man runs contrary to the happenings in Fraction’s run so I can only imagine how Brian is going to explain it somewhere down the line. However it could be argued that Fraction’s run takes place before the Avengers arc given that the Bleeding Edge armor made it’s debut there although yes it’s a very tight time frame between Invincible Iron Man and Avengers.
I tend to like Brian’s ideas and the artists he’s paired with is usually of a high caliber. For the most part I’ve liked his work overall and the directions he’s taken the books but I think his current work on Avengers isn’t quite as good of an offering as his New, Dark, or even Mighty Avengers.
I’m almost convinced that he should have just kept New Avengers and left Avengers to another writer but I’m curious as to where the arc will go and I’m expecting some sort of explanation behind some of these things down the line since leaving stuff like Stark’s situation so open is not good.
Jose I’m curious.Why do you think LOST sucks.
Jose thinks it sucked because EVERYONE LIKED IT and he likes to be Mr. Contrarian. Once FRINGE becomes a big hit, watch him say he doesn’t like it anymore. 😛
Elliott
Well, to be fair E you are not popular at all and I have ALWAYS hated you, so…
J.
Well, its not impossible that SCARLET will be in the same veins as TORSO or ALIAS. Its not likely but yeah… whatever..
Not precisely on topic, but kinda related. I just crossed with this article and I wonder if you guys have read it. http://enterthestory.com/realtime_marvel_universe.html
I think you would like, if you haven’t read yet, but anyway, it never hurts to share 🙂
Great find!
Interesting read.
Personally, I think Marvel died with Mark Gruenwald. He was Marvel’s continuity cop and he talked at length in his Marvel Age columns about the lengths he went to to ensure Marvel was a cohesive universe. I remember one column specifically where he boasted how much better Marvel was than DC because Marvel “got it right the first time” and, thus, didn’t need to constantly retcon their universe the way DC was doing.
Gruenwald was a fantastic writer on Captain America also.
I’d pretty much agree with the conclusion that the Marvel Universe was a cohesive one until the mid 90’s, you felt like if something happened in one book that it could be touched on in another book but also the books could operate stand alone as well.
The X-Men section of the Marvel Universe is especially impenetratable to new readers these days. Even for someone like me who started reading the X-books (although there was only Uncanny, X-Factor and New Mutants in those days), I dropped the X-Books and I wouldn’t even know where to jump in now and I’m usually pretty ok with jumping mid-stream into anything.
I found Joss Whedon’s Astonishing X-Men to be accessible. And I hadn’t read an X-Men title in years before picking that up.
I agree with you about Gruenwald being a good writer. Very underrated. I was especially a huge fan of his Quasar book. I’d rate his “Cosmos In Collision” story arc as one of the best I’ve read in a mainstream comic.
can i just say thank you guys i picked up dynamo 5 after seeing it on image online and then reading the first issue online i love this book what a brilliant idea for a comic i kicked myself beacause i said why didn’t i think about this i’m so pissed about avengers 2 i didn’t even post on my blog about it that’s how much i hated it and thanks for the half shout out i was the one who posted about the video.
You should read my Previews column every month, I tipped Dynamo 5 about 3 months ago as I loved the original series and #1 of this series didn’t disappoint either.
Awesome video guys
You’ve summed up everything that’s bad about the guy’s work of late, it’s like a “final dossier” on the guy’s utter failings! I actually hope this somehow gets to him so he might listen to these criticisms.
I was REALLY into his stuff (From DD to NA), but dropped all of it (and sold most of what I had on ebay) around the time of Secret Invasion, because every tie-in book that was coming out was A: Decompressed to the point where I nearly took them back to the store for a refund and B: Every ‘Reveal’ contradicted stuff he had written himself before.
His books have gone from being brilliant and character driven, to being driven purely by pretty line-ups, costumes and over-arching storylines, which just doesn’t work for him because he just doesn’t give a shit about continuity, even HIS OWN continuity.
Seriosuly, someone should embed this on Jinxworld. I will if you won’t
You should do it, DF!
I posted a link to the video on the Avengers #2 thread that’s stickied to the top if you’re interested.
Nice show guys, I always like the long ones. If you just read the second coming story line you could hop right on with x-men and it would be very enjoyable. I have been hopping around different X-books for a while trying to find one that I thought was worth sticking with, it has been a tough search but the second coming story has been really good. Now the book is at the top of my stack when it comes out, it is wrapping up soon so we will see if they can do a good ending.