CCW 3.71: LAST RANTS – WONDER WOMAN’S NEW COSTUME…WHY ALL THE HATE?

Posted: July 10, 2010 in CCW TV, DC Comics, Wonder Woman
Tags: , , , , , , , ,

"She's got pants?!"

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Comments
  1. Venom829 says:

    I hate it when people outside the comics world bring in their opinion without reading the books, and MAN I HATE FOX NEWS HARDCORE! If people complain about comics who read comics, that’s fine, I read comics, I don’t read Wonder Woman, but I like the new design, heck I might actually read a JMS trade if it comes to my library, cause I know who good a writer JMS is, and he understands characters. I would love it if someone said something during the whole comotion about the costume design to shut non-comic reading WW “fans” up. BTW, for Superman, the way I see it, when a writer tries to make Superman relatable in a story by having him doing something relatable to us, like the Lois Lane marriage, that’s a epic fail. But if it’s like JMS were he is trying to make him relatable by having Superman doing it with Superman wanting to relate to people, that is how you do it. Twilight blows hardcore, and that does not need to be seen to know that, despite what Twihards say about that!

  2. Constantanius says:

    Loving how you also can’t stand the Twilight books/movies without reading/watching them… Glowy sparkly vampires?!?!?! WTF no thanks. Glad to see you guys vindicated my rants when it came to the temp costume change(I am of course one who actually reads the books). I’ve never posted so much about one subject in my life, I was surprised Elliot didn’t boot me off his Facebook page! Great video again as per usual with you guys.

  3. Fallows1985 says:

    I’ve only just got into Wonder Woman I thought the way Gail Simone wrote her was great. With JMS, I’m on the fence I don’t mind them redesigning it but I don’t like it the way they did, I like the top bit but the pants n jacket I dnt like. If they had the boots with the pants cos I didn’t really like the leggins into shoes costume they got goin. I get what your saying that JMS is trying to make Wonder Woman relatable but, shouldn’t he do that with Wonder Woman rather than just redesigning her, although like I said I’ve only read Wonder Woman for about a year so I don’t know what’s happened in the past. But I’ve always found Diana to be a kind of fish out of a water character, but a fish who doesn’t care that she is in a different water, she’s the fish who will swim anyway she wants …. totally milked the fish metaphor. I will be reading JMS’ run, wasn’t really sure what to think when I read the intro, I think once I get into his run I’ll know how I feel more same with Winnicks Power Girl. Really the only problem I have is that I am not used to JMS’ Wonder Woman, bhut once I do I think it should be good

  4. IronMuskrat says:

    To be honest the costume change has had the opposite effect on me, for the first time that I can remember I actually have some interest in the character of Wonder Woman. I respect JMS as a writer a great deal, and when I saw he was giving the character what seemed to be a total overhaul(even if temporary)it peak my interest in Wonder Woman for the first time.

    Does my lack of interest have something to do with the fact she is a woman? Yes, it does, sort of. I know I will catch some shit for this, but hear me out.

    I have never been a fan of female superheroes since I was a kid. Not because of any dislike of women, but a dislike of the way female characters were portrayed in comics when I was growing up. And not just comics, but TV and movies as well, women were always the side-kicks or eye candy that were included in the story to give the male heroes someone to save, or fall in love with or just serve as comic relief. Invariable, females in movies and TV where never as strong as, smart as or even as cool as the male heroes. If a female character was given male traits they were villains, fem fatales or bitchy women than needed a man to tame them and show them how to act like a lady.

    I never looked up to women as heroes or role models because that’s just not the way they were portrayed back in the day. And I carried that attitude into my choices when it came to reading comic books when I was kid. Sure I was OK with women being on superhero teams like the Avengers and X-Men, because the there always plenty of strong male characters around to hold my interest, but read a solo female superhero comic? What for? Marvel back in the day only seemed to serve up female superheroes that where lesser versions of their male heroes. She-Hulk? Spider-Women? Why would I read those books when I can read the Hulk and Spider-Man? DC had Wonder Woman, but the only impression I had of her was from the cheesy 70’s TV show, giant breasts running around in a Red, White and Blue bathing suit. No Thanks, I will take Batman or Superman, thank you very much.

    When I got back into collecting comics about a year ago, I wasn’t sure where to start and looked to everyone here on the CCW site for advice on good books to read to get back into the swing of things. One Book that Jose and Elliott spoke very highly of was the new Batwoman being written by Greg Rucka in Detective Comics. I liked to think that old age had given me the wisdom to appreciate a female superhero more, but I still was very unsure that I would like a comic centered around a women. I did decide to give it a shot and was surprised at how much I enjoyed the comic, here we had a strong female character that was was every bit a strong, smart and capable as any male superhero I read in the past. It was a revelation for me and i thank Jose and everyone for bring me out of my funk, but i still looked at Wonder Woman and that silly costume of her’s, visions of Linda Carter bouncing and jiggly danced in my head and it didn’t matter who was writing it or drawing it, I still couldn’t bring myself to the take the character seriously.

    Then a strange thing happened, I heard that JMS was taking over Wonder Woman and well, as much as I like his writing, I still wasn’t interested in the book. But then I saw the uproar over Wonder Woman’s new costume, really? let me take a look, holy shit! She has pants on! and a jacket? She actually looks like she is ready to fight crime and not heading out for a day at the beach!

    I guess I am a shallow asshole, but all it took was putting a pair of pants on Wonder Women for me to start to take her seriously, but I am a big enough man to admitted when I am wrong about something. I do feel the need to make amends for my past bad attitudes towards Wonder Woman and female heroes in general.

    Elliott and Jose are right, you can’t criticize a comic without reading it, and even worse, dismiss a book out of hand without at least giving it a chance. So I will do this, I will buy the first few issues of Wonder Women under JMS’s run to see if I like it or not, at least then I will have the right to say it sucks or that I have been wrong for all of these years.

    IM

    P.S. Even if my attitude changes I will still have no problem with Linda Carter as Wonder Woman =)

  5. kurumais says:

    i bought 2 copies of 600 and gave them to 2 women who claimmmmmmmmmmm to looooove wonder woman
    its been about a week i havent heard back from them i bet neither one has even read it
    im going to wait another week to ask if they have
    they are lynda carter tv ww fans those fans dont care about the comic i

    i actually like the issue over all loved the amanda conner story which ive been hearing is everyone’s fav
    i liked the costume except for the bracelets i think the tradition bracelets would have worked better but maybe they didnt want anything traditional left over going in
    i like the jacket

    hey this is heroes reborn cap all over again they put an eagle on his head they ruined him

    you guys got dangerously close to saying ” if you dont work for a comic company you cant talk about a comic company” with your if you dont read the book you cant criticize it
    also i vaguely remember a much hyped book that you guys ripped a couple of times sight unseen called marvel divas and from what i saw that book was well received after it came out

    in regards to the comment about marvel’s support for their female characters i dont think they have anyone in there stable who has the merchandising appeal of ww so is it really worth them to keep ms marvel or she hulk afloat the way dc does for wonder woman?

    i think the debate in a way proves your contention that wonder woman is an icon look at all the fuss if she wasnt an icon who would care

    • If I remember correctly, and I usually do, we had a problem with the MARKETING of Marvel Divas. And you only “saw” that the book was well received? You haven’t read it?

      J.

      • kurumais says:

        i read it well the first issue anyway not my cup of tea but i saw quite a few good reviews and talked to a couple of people that liked it
        thought both the art and writing for issue 1 was dull not horrible but just dull
        did you guys read you made a big stink about the whole thing then never mentioned anything when it came out?

  6. cballsack says:

    I love the many times Elliott does his “dumb fanboy” voice. We should turn that into a drinking game when watching these videos.

  7. Deemar says:

    I’ve come to dig the costume change, sans the jacket and brouche.

    It’s the wholesale retooling of Diana’s origin I’m not sure about.

    JMS did wonders with Thor, but I think Thor is a easier “fix” than Wonder woman.

    • Luiz de Mello says:

      To be fair, Thor’s continuity is totally screwed up, things change because yes all the time. But thing is, Thor has being for so many screw ups, I mean, changes that his fans (me included) just stopped carrying if it changes or not, as long as it is good and doesn’t fuck it up any more. And he always kept the stereotype for non Thor fans of ‘big man with lighting and hammer’. Keeping appearances/stereotypes on comics is a HUGE thing.

      The other thing with Thor is that he is an in story minor character (with a lot of glamour, but that is it). On crossovers/events he never does anything decisive, he is never an actual major player (he just does one or other ‘omph’ for the fans, sometimes). Out of his books he has minor importance and presence, so no other than his fans give crap to what happens to him in or out of his books. Wondie has in the DCU story importance, she has done some more decisive stuff, so that ruffles feathers for her non fans. It is like she is that Bat/Super/JLA girl-buddy who did a lot of stuff with them and you don’t change ‘essential supporting cast’ out of the ‘main books’ like that, if that makes sense.

      • Deemar says:

        Thor atleast has the “built in” continuity hiccups explanation of Ragnarok.

        Also I reject the notion Thor has no impact on the Marvel U, his absence alone in major stories affects stories in major ways.

        The idea of Thor as the “Big hammer Man” is a good thing in my opinion, his core concept is simple enough that it make him widely acceptable for many who ain’t that informed about his history.

        WW if anything needs the streamlining similair to Thor, his core concept is pretty damn solid. As much as I like WW hers ain’t as solid.

        • Luiz de Mello says:

          The ‘big hammer (that is used just as a hammer) man’ concept imo is more ‘useful’ than good. It is inaccurate, it doesn’t represent well the Thor you used to get on his solo books, his fans don’t like it much to see him portrayed as a dumb arrogant brick, but works for everyone else.

          That leads to why I think he has no de facto importance on the MU. He appears and people say ‘the guy with goofy carpenter tool and god complex arrived… Now where were we? Oh look, captain america, we are saved!’ Wondie appear and it is ‘ITS WONDER WOMAN, thank God she came!!!’

          He sure does get some lipservices when he is absent, but what I really have hard time remembering are times when he was present and actually did make all that difference (as someone as powerful and experienced fighter and commander should), instead of just having omph moments and being up with the crew (like everyone else). Of course, I may be missing stuff out, but that is the impression I get from most major marvel crossover stories/events or Avengers stuff.

  8. Benicio127 says:

    #600 was the first Wondy comic I ever purchased. I’ve been interested in picking up The Hiketeia by Greg Rucka for awhile and I saw DC’s Wonder Woman animated movie a year ago.

    If this gets me interested in a character I’ve been pretty lukewarm towards, all the better.

  9. Heck says:

    I wanted to pick up WW #600. I’ve been a Wonder Woman reader off and on since Rucka was on board and it’s been on my pull list since Gail Simone began her run. I skipped #600 due to the 5 dollar price tag. That’s too much for what it is.

  10. Heck says:

    Okay, so if Wonder Woman’s timeline is erased and she is in a parrell Earth or even just a new timeline, shouldn’t Donna and Cassie disapear?

  11. Twilight is the best thing ever!!!!!Much better than that Buffy crap.Edward and Bella are in so much love that it’s amazing.Seriously you must be retarted not to like it.You should give them another try Elliot.

    Nah I’m just screwing with ya.

  12. Lewis Cox says:

    I don’t mind wonder woman costume I even like both of the costumes so all the bad pess about it it just Piss me off so bad, many superheroes over the years have changed their looks like spiderman.

  13. Lewis Cox says:

    It just pissed me off why why do people ah………… .

  14. Dre says:

    Superman and Wonder Woman are really vegetarianns? Or were you guys saying that facetiously?

  15. F%^K we just lost the world cup!

  16. Edward2962 says:

    Excellent vid Elliot and Jose.Always appreciate the insight you guys are able to bring to these issues.I was going to bring this up on the open thread but I decided to post it here cuz you mentioned Twilight in yer vid and some have commented on it.

    Please understand that I’m not accusing you or anyone on this blog of this.You guys are sensitive to gender issues and I’ve kinda thinking of this one..

    As a side issue(?) how much of this Twilight hate do you think is gender related? I’m not saying that if you don’t like Twilight you must be a sexist, but alot of it sounds like whining coming from men old enuff to vote and drink. Alot of it comes across like “Wah,those teenage girls like something that’s not aimed at me! The world is Eff’ed up!” If you’re a teenage guy it makes sense to hate the trend cuz it’s probably all some of your friends are talking about, but if you’re 30 why do you fuggin’ care?

    Are vampires that sparkle in the sun silly? Yeah,kinda.But you know what? So’s Batman. Most of us like this stuff cuz it’s fantasy.

    Personally,I’m indifferent to the trend.I haven’t read the books or seen the movie.It just doesn’t interest me. BUT I’m not MAD cuz a LADY wrote a romance novel for teenage GIRLS and the GIRLS like it. Like I said, I’m not accusing anyone,but since we talk about gender issues and how it relates to fandom I thought I’d bring it up. Maybe I’m just cynical maybe I’m reading too much into it,but I’d love hear what Stamps or anyone thought.

    • To me Bella is a completely weak, pathetic character. It’s as simple as that. E and I grew up with Buffy The Vampire Slayer so you can’t really be surprised.

      Also, I wasn’t aware that we weren’t allowed to comment on certain things because of our age. I’ll keep that in mind.

      J.

      • Insideman says:

        An you CAN’T be a FEMINISTS, either… And if I ever see either of you watching a Miley Cyrus video (even just so you can mock it later) you are BOTH in DOUBLE TROUBLE! πŸ˜‰

      • Edward2962 says:

        I’m even older,so believe me I wasn’t saying that you shouldn’t comment on it(and like I said on the other thread I’m probably gonna buy the new Batman myself).I was asking you why do YOU think so many OTHER GUYS are so condescending towards it and other things in general that seems to attract a large female audience.

        For instance,during a previous thread about WW there was a vid posted of someone being really dismissive of WW.Saying things like “all she has is T-shirts for girls” etc.I’ve seen other vids where he suggests that girls and women AREN’T SMART ENUFF to get that real love isn’t like the movies. Some folks invent excuses to not like it like “the monsters are unrealistic”. Uh,yeah…

        I brought up the age thing cuz I’ve heard guys just a little younger than me get upset because of “all these teeny boppers” and I’m like, “Are you mad at My Little Pony too?” I’m like don’t you realize than A. You used to be a “teeny-bopper” and B. Some people think the stuff you like is silly.I wasn’t saying that you and E. are too old to comment on certain things in pop culture, I was asking why do you think so many guys in fandom wanna hate on the likes or desires of teenage girls.

        I guess the discussion I was trying to spark and using Twilight as an example is do you think that GUYS being dismissive of the likes and opinions of GIRLS is another reason there are fewer women in the fan community? It’s one thing to disagree with someone over the merits of a work of art or piece of entertainment.It’s another thing to be like “Well,girls like it so it can’t be any good”.

        I wasn’t criticizing you for being old and not liking it (I’m even older).I was saying that for every person that dislikes it cuz it’s a bad Hollywood movie,there seems to be a someone down on it for what I think are sexist reason.These same guys are probably going to line up for Transformers 3.I was asking do you think that’s possible.

        • Insideman says:

          Edward, I have more respect for the girls lining up for “Twilight” than I do for ANYBODY who would line to be ROYALLY REAMED by “Transformers 3”. πŸ™‚

          What the fuck happened to??? Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me TWICE, shame on ME

          At least “Twilight” is apparently delivering the “goods” the books’ promised the readers… Most of the “Twilight” fans seem to agree with that.

        • I’m just needling Twihards is all. Don’t take me seriously when I say “this is bad and you can’t convince me otherwise.” πŸ˜‰

          Elliott

          • Luiz de Mello says:

            Woot? ‘Don’t take me so seriously, I am just kidding’? Ain’t that Bendis-style? You gonna need to wash that taint too, you know πŸ˜›

          • cballsack says:

            Must I post this Kevin Smith clip again?

            • Deemar says:

              My lord Smith

              • Heck says:

                I agree with Kevin Smith on this.

                I think Twilight is bullshit. The books are written in a dime store romance novel kind of way. There’s nothing remotely literary about them.

                My ex-girlfriend was big into the movies, so I watched the first one with her. It was awful on almost all levels. Felt like an Asylum flick, just serious and with a bigger budget. I’ve seen the second one with the volume off like 12 times (I work in a video store) and it seemed like I was watching a GAP commercial.

                All that said, I understand that it isn’t aimed at me and all that. It’s a different kind of beast and more power to anyone who enjoys it. I just wish people would find enjoyment out of something more intellectual.

    • Insideman says:

      If you are SMART teenage guy, you “hate the trend” PRIVATELY… Take your girlfriend to see the movie and then revel in the rewards of being a “good guy” afterward. πŸ˜‰

      I don’t hate the Twilight phenomenon myself… I just think the first (2) movies (the ones I have seen) are devoid of any real dramatic tension or feeling. They are superficial constructs.

      Bella wants to DIE so she can be with Edward. Why aren’t her suicidal tendencies being EXPLORED more? Aren’t they SIGNIFICANT– especially in this “PC” day and age?!? And if Edward really DOES loathe his experience as a vampire… Why doesn’t he take Bella on a SAVAGE HUNT– where she can see him rip open forest animals and drink their blood? (I think there is one VERY MINOR cut scene showing Edward and his “family” feeding in the first film– but Bella doesn’t see it.)

      They don’t explore these themes in the MOVIES (I don’t know about the books) because that kind of REALISTIC SHIT wouldn’t sell to romanticized, love-struck teen-age girls.

      Most knowledgeable male fans of cinema (of ANY age) couldn’t CARE LESS that a woman wrote the “Twilight” books are that the films also had a female screenwriter. Don’t believe me? Then look at all the FAN LOVE for Anne Rice or Jane Espenson (writer and co-Executive Producer of the Buffy TV series) or the high praise for “Near Dark”– the excruciatingly brutal vampire film directed by Academy Award winning director Kathryn Bigelow.

      Most uninformed young males are probably ranking on “Twilight” because the films are currently the cool thing to mock. (Bet they wouldn’t be mocking the material if they were the actors PORTRAYING Jacob or Edward!)

      But informed male critics– of any age– normally mock the “Twilight” films BECAUSE THE SUCK… Pure and simple.

      • Edward2962 says:

        Yes, I wasn’t accusing Jose and Elliot of being too old, so they shouldn’t comment on movies aimed at young women..I was saying that I have seen older men hate on Twilight and other things just cuz young girls like it.I think sometimes girls see this attitude and might be hesitant to join fandom.That’s all. (I forgot that Jose just turned 30 but I didn’t mean him or E.)

        And I agree with your point about young males mocking something just to mock it.That’s why said I get it if you’re a teenager.I’ve had to grow out of that impulse myself.

        And I remember Near Dark,it was (to use a young ppl phrase) badass.Did you ever she a movie Bigelow did with Jamie Lee Curtis? I think it was called Blue Steel?

        • Insideman says:

          Yes, I did Edward!

          There was a really sweet “blue light” tinged sex scene with Jamie in “Blue Steel”. I remember her being really sweaty in it…

          What? Sorry! That’s how my mind CATALOGS movies, OK? By their sex scenes (or lack thereof.

          Just the way it is. πŸ˜‰

          And I agree with you Edward– I have seen OLD and YOUNG men hate on “Twilight” and dismiss it just because young girls love it.

          These males are probably the same shut-ins, panty fetishist sons-a-bitches who are a gnat’s pubic hair away from a rape charge.

          In other words, ANYBODY who HATES on something just because SOMEBODY ELSE LIKES IT– is an immature, cruel asshole who doesn’t deserve to even suck the same air the rest of us breathe.

          In short, FUCK THEM! πŸ™‚

          How’s that for “brevity”, D?

    • Deemar says:

      Batman should sparkle in the moonlight.

      πŸ™‚

  17. Insideman says:

    The point I was attempting to make in my other (2) posts: The Wonder Woman comic has not made money since the 1960s. I believe this is the point Jose was sticking to. (Thanks for the shout out Jose!).

    Elliott was absolutely right when he said most of the MAJOR DC & Marvel characters have ancillary licensing revenues that DWARF their publishing revenues… But if I can be so bold, I don’t think that’s the point Jose and I were making.

    What I was trying to say — and what I think Jose had also understood– is Wonder Woman is virtually the ONLY major DC or Marvel character (out of characters like Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Hulk, etc.) that is licensed SO HEAVILY… Yet STILL does NOT have ONE SINGLE comic book that consistently makes money. But DC continues to publish her monthly comic anyway (which I appreciate because I am a long time WW GN reader). DC does this to ensure that they are putting the “proper positive face” on their Wonder Woman PUBLISHING COMMITMENT for their licensees.

    As I mentioned (or alluded to) in my (2) other posts as well: WONDER WOMAN means HUGE licensing money to DC because she is the ONLY RECOGNIZABLE FEMALE SUPER HERO WORLDWIDE… And not just to fans or fanboys… But to everyone remotely familiar with “cartoon characters” in general.

    So I agree with Jose– Wonder Woman DOES need to be published monthly (or more regularly than the one or a two minis a year that Elliott proposed). DC has to look like they are SUPPORTING the character… And I don’t think one or two mini-series a year will cut it.

    By continuously publishing the ONE Wonder Woman comic, DC can extract HIGHER licensing fees. Don’t publish the book or publish on a sporadic schedule– license fees go DOWN.

    Here’s why: DC can’t rely on any regular SOLO Wonder Woman animated series, TV Series or Film series to showcase the character on a regular basis (there aren’t any– nor have there ever been any since the WW TV Series started in 1976 that I know of)… Not like Batman or Superman. At best, WW is a supporting player in various JLA animated series or *gasp* the old “Super Friends” re-runs. The Lynda Carter TV show is a quaint artifact from long ago that actually hurts the modern WW more than it helps her.

    So other than the EXCELLENT straight-to-DVD/Blu Ray animated Wonder Woman movie that was released last year– DC has NO other DEDICATED DC PRODUCT to show potential licensors than the MONTHLY WW COMIC (and any other books she might figure prominently in). These books are the ONLY things DC has to show licensors that they are serious about EXPLOITING and ADVANCING the character themselves.

    Still, Elliott is COMPLETELY CORRECT when he says that you DON’T need to publish a monthly comic to have your character licensed. Minor DC and Marvel characters get licensed all the time. But the licensing fees for these minor characters are DWARFED by Wonder Woman’s yearly take… And I seriously cannot think of ONE MINOR CHARACTER (that isn’t already getting excellent exposure by being part of a MAJOR SUPER TEAM like the X-Men, JLA or the Avengers)– that may only have a mini-series published once a year or so– that gets licensed like a MAJOR comic book character gets licensed. Can anybody else?

    Publishing a monthly book is a MINOR investment for DC anyway– because having WW around regularly accomplishes TWO things: 1) the monthly comic book DOES keep WW’s profile and awareness higher than an occasional mini-series would– therefore keeping licensing revenues higher and 2) Wonder Woman ATTRACTS “A List” talent. Look at the roster of talented people that have taken on WW in the last 20 years… And as Elliott pointed out– These writers/artists didn’t sign up for a WW for the money because the book doesn’t sell– they signed up for their love of the character.

    So, at least in my mind– you could still license Wonder Woman at the SAME MONETARY LEVEL for the first FEW YEARS if you only published a WW mini-series every year… But slowly, the licensing WOULD diminish… Mainly because the LICENSORS would balk at the HIGHER LICENSING FEES Wonder Woman demands because DC would NOT be showing THEIR publishing commitment to the character.

    Remember, licensing people or no different than the rest of the NON-fanboy nation. These people don’t know comic books from crapola. Right now, a DC Rep can walk into an licensor’s office and plop dozens of Wonder Woman comics onto their desk. The Rep can talk about the fairly recent “Amazons Attack” company cross-over event, point to Wonder Woman’s involvement in the WEEKLY “Trinity” series or say, “Hey! Look! We’ve hired JMS– one of the most CELEBRATED comic books writers of THIS CENTURY– to write Wonder Woman. Have you seen the ALL the PRESS surrounding her NEW ORIGIN?” etc., etc., etc.

    No regular comic– no chance to exploits changes like this.

    Licensors do NOT know how popular the Wonder Woman comic is or isn’t… And a good DC rep can spin her book sales ANY number of ways he or she wants to. For example, they could say, “WW has been the HIGHEST SELLING DC Female Super-Hero comic for 60 Years straight”, etc.

    All the licensor sees is COMIC after COMIC featuring Wonder Woman in her SOLO BOOK. A GREAT DC Sales Rep would then show the licensor TONS of other comics filled with images of the three TRINITY characters (Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman) standing side-by-side, toe-to-toe and all SHARING the SAME SPACE. By doing this, the DC Rep can easily convince any UNWITTING licensor that Wonder Woman is AS POPULAR as Batman and Superman.

    Those are just SOME of the reasons WHY I think DC needs to publish a monthly Wonder Woman comic.

    • Deemar says:

      Insider I just wanna strangle you sometimes!

      I actually have to stop everthing I’m doing to read your posts, they are usually pretty insightful yet it makes me hold a grudge, because I hate reading.

      Cliffnotes Sider Cliffnotes!

      Long post means less time I can draw funnies.

      πŸ˜‰

      • Insideman says:

        Yeah, I get it D. πŸ™‚

        Wish I could leave a “verbal” post– then you could not look up and just LISTEN to my BS while you are drawing.

        Am aware of length problems but I really needed to get those points out in such a way to make sure that both Jose and Elliott knew I was agreeing with them– just that I thought we were sometimes comparing “apples and oranges”.

        I respect BOTH these guys’ opinions (or I wouldn’t hang here) and it’s just too fucking easy to have a written post MISCONSTRUED… Hence the length.

        But I am aware of lengths problems, bro. I SWEAR I am. πŸ™‚

      • Luiz de Mello says:

        I was one second alway from ‘criticizing’ you for drawing at frigging Sunday, cause you know, Sunday = lazy day… then I realized that I am only browsing sites cause I am on a short break from making some 3d models for fun, on Sunday.

        In other words, I just owned myself πŸ˜›

        • Deemar says:

          Self PWN!! πŸ™‚

          What ya’ modeling?

          • Luiz de Mello says:

            Currently trying to recreate the Temple of Zeus at Olympia, I am a sucker for ancient architecture. Love buildings that are also pieces of art, little things annoys me more than the huge and ugly grey boxes we have now 😦

            • Deemar says:

              Very cool Mello.

              Hope you post some of your stuff soon.

              Ya’know i’ve never thought about the buildings we have today vs ancient architecture. your right aside from say fancy museums and sports structures most buildings are plain.

              • Luiz de Mello says:

                Assuming I finish it, I shall share. I am making it just for fun/practice/(maybe)portfolio, so I have “all the time in the world” and I am kind of abusing of that freedom.

                But anyhow, I have some little things on my portfolio if you wanna see. Click on my name (should be clickable…I think, if not let me know), then go to 3D Modeling section. Ignore the rest, my portfolio-making skills suck hard, very hard. It is all simple stuff, I warn you beforehand πŸ˜›

                • rush says:

                  Your is not clickable. Put up a link, I’d be interested in seeing your work.

                  • Luiz de Mello says:

                    (I guess I got self pwnd by my own lack of attention again, I should have noticed that I can’t click myself anymore)

                    http://kingdomofthesun.wordpress.com/

                    • rush says:

                      Great stuff Luiz. You definitely have a firm grasp on coding patterns as well as good artistic sensibility. Do you have any plans for games on the Android platform?

                    • Luiz de Mello says:

                      I don’t have specific plans for it right now, but it is one of things I may end working with. Actually I have no specific plans at all, those I had don’t seem to work and right now I kinda have to replan a lot. I am not a complete stranger to platforms other than PC and portables, it is an option I am considering.

    • Locusmortis says:

      For a long time DC HAD to publish a minimum amount of Wonder Woman comics per year.

      http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/06/03/comic-book-urban-legend-revealed-1/

      “It has long been said that if DC did not publish Wonder Woman at least four times a year, that the rights would revert back to the estate of William Moulton Marston, creator of Wonder Woman.

      Writer Kurt Busiek addressed the rumors earlier this year,

      They are no longer true, but they were true for a long time – as I understand it, the terms were that DC had to publish at least four issues with “Wonder Woman” as the banner lead feature or rights would revert. That’s why DC did the LEGEND OF WONDER WOMAN mini-series that I wrote and Trina Robbins drew – the Perez revamp was in development, but coming along slowly, and they had to publish something to fulfil the contract terms.

      They specifically didn’t want something that would be attention-getting, because they didn’t want to undercut the revamp. So they wanted something gentle and nostalgic, and we had fun doing it.

      In the intervening years, though, I’m given to understand that at some point DC bought the character outright, and thus those contract terms are no longer in force.

      So there you go!”

      Thats no longer the case but they still would need to publish every so often to maintain copyright and trademarks. Just look at Marvel how they publish a Captain Marvel “ongoing” every few years just to hold on to the Captain Marvel name.

  18. Locusmortis says:

    I’d like to make a complaint! Its Elliot saying “BlasΓ© blasΓ© blasΓ©” all the fricken time, I’m amazed Jose dosen’t beat the shit out of him!

  19. Johnny Cockburn says:

    sweet review. i’m personally not a fan of wonder woman, but i have great respect for JMS so i’m sure he’ll do wonderful things with her.

    ps: hey elliot, is facetious your favorit word or what πŸ˜›

  20. Insideman says:

    In all this, I neglected to mention I have a lot of respect for JMS too… And as a long time WW reader, I can’t wait to see what he does with the book.

    I doubt anyone at DC will have the balls to fuck with JMS like JoeyQ seemed to be doing at the end of JMS’ Marvel employment.

    I mean, Marvel Brass or Marvel Editorial seemingly never say a word to Bendis, Millar or Loeb but they gave JMS grief. How sad. How many books that could have been. No ADULT resolution to “Supreme Power” and truncated runs on so many other books.

    Some used to say JMS lost interest in those books… I wonder if “lost interest” should be replaced with “tired of getting fucked with”.

  21. phil says:

    I know this is like screaming into a vacuum, but I really wish they would go with the Sapphire costume, and just give it WW’s primary colors

  22. Grim1 says:

    Here’s my opinion. As Elliot pointed out in the Vid is true, WW is truely irrelevant. Most Fanboys are not going to be swayed into becoming a WW reader no matter who is writing the book. As far as liscensing is concerned, they could just have her in the JLA or some team book ( maybe a DC “Agents of Atlas”) When you look at the WW products out there, it is the classic WW from the 70s-80s mostly. You don’t need her in a monthly series to have product out there, ex. Captain America, (that ain’t Bucky on my shirt bro!)
    I think if they want to keep WW in a monthly, they should know their target audience, and go with more of a young reader comic ( maybe in digest format). As a father of 3 girls, 7, 10, and 11, i can tell you they are ravinous WW readers! they love all the girl comic characters, but obviously the “Warrior Princess” who can beat up on Superman is the favorite. I think a gearing towards young girls who could grow up with the character would be the way to go. We need more female readers anyways. Your just not going to turn Fanboyz! on to her. Either your a fan or not. I like Wonder Woman, but alot of her stuff is mythology based which doesn’t appeal to me.

  23. phil says:

    I feel ya on the mythology tip G!, I was’nt even crazy about the relocation of Asgard deal in Thor. And I thoght JMS did a bang up job in Thor, it just wasn’t my cup of tea. Your take on how they should market WW ….well out of necessity they might end up doing just that, but I don’t think that it’s something DC should push for

    I think were DC to throw in the towel now it would come across as being somehow defeatist and then the powers that be would be strugglig to bring her back to the place she is now I think DC has to keep plugging away with the character…’til they can’t anymore.

  24. Matthew Guy (mguy1977) says:

    I have read WW for the past few years so I am willing to give JMS & Co. the benefit of the doubt to see where the title is going.

    Matthew

  25. […] is temporary anyway. (Google “Wonder Woman’s New Costume” on the net or go to the CCW*TV Blog and view their “Last Rants” on the subject if you don’t believe me.) And anyway, […]

  26. Grim1 says:

    Though I do not work in the Comic Industry, Or comic opinion blogger-ship. I submit the following.
    The costume reminds me of the old Wonder girl/ Donna Troy. I do think she does deserves a new costume, something more “warrior-esk” less ” victoria secret-esk” as the wifey says.
    She’s like Coke. Pepsi was kicking their butt, nobody drank it.ο»Ώ They changed the formula, and everyone is up in arms, they wanted Coke Classic back.
    Few of these people are actual comic fans. I think it’s the changing of a “Icon” thing. Most everyone remembers her as one particular way from the tv show, cartoons, whatever. That’s “their” WW.
    I personally fell they could have moved away from the red/white/blue scheme awhile back. I liked the white and black suit she had as a Meta-human Agent alongside Nemesis.
    @ CCW – Good, Point/ Counter Point segment. As annoying as I know the “FanBOYZ” voice is to Jose, It makes me Laugh my butt off!! Keep Hating.
    – EXCELSIOR!
    πŸ™‚

  27. Morlock50 says:

    Great video guys. You basically took the words right out of my mouth. Where were all these outraged fans when Gail Simone was writing the book? JMS is trying to do something new to get attention and sell comics; he’s not trying to tear down anyone’s favorite icon here.

    After visiting the WW boards on DC Comics and CBR, I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of Wonder Woman fans don’t really know what they want from this character, and would find something to complain about regardless of what JMS did. I mean, you can find pre-Crisis Diana fans who are still pissed at Perez because he didn’t make Steve Trevor the love interest in the first reboot. If you can’t find something to enjoy in George Perez’s run, then you might as well read something else, cause that was as good as it got as far as WW stories.

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