Posted: September 15, 2010 in DC Comics, Last Rants, Marvel, Opinion
Tags: , , , , ,

Check out the original article on Bleeding Cool

And here is the Darwyn Cooke video:

  1. kurumais says:

    nice vid boys

    I think the way to get young female readers is through animation just ask stamps. I pointed out before I noticed a most fan girls came to comics through batman TAS. Im sure the justice league and teen titans cartoons made a whole lot more and I bet the young justice cartoon will make a few more .
    marvel did the whole thing with women comics but I kept wondering how all those girls are supposed to find out these books were waiting for them ? did they think word of mouth from fanboys was going to spread the word? That fanboys were going to go tell their sisters. Girlfriends, daughters etc about them and these new female readers were going to come in? that darwyne cook wonder woman book sounds great who would buy it? You jose? You are already a ww fan that’s not going to help dc or wonder woman. Dc did a great young readers supergirl book cosmic advrenturs in the 8th grade nobody cared didn’t sell. I kept wondering why isn’t this on cartoon network?
    You guys took a shot at marvel’s HER oes book but did you look at? It was a fun book exactly the kind of book you are asking for I gave it to couple of girls who really liked it . I d be shocked if it sold 15k copies but if it was on tv as a cartoon I think it would be a hit .
    But even then how well do the cartoon superhero tie books sell? How well does brave and the bold sell whren the cartoon does really well? The teen titans go book failed . there are quite a few very good young reader / all ages books out there many female friendly and they don’t sell. So how do you fix that?

  2. Venom829 says:

    Great vid guys. Best part, Jose’s mini Todd Mcfarlane rant!!! 🙂

  3. Krystal says:

    I didn’t think I could love you guys any more than I already did, but this video took the cake! I respect your opinions a lot and feel very much the same way about much of what you discuss. I spend less time in comic book shops these days and more time at my local flea market buying stuff from 10, 20 years ago… it only costs me a buck or two and it’s better material.

    I also want to thank both of you for being ready to defend Batwoman at a moments notice. As a lesbian reader, the character is obviously very important to me and, I think, very important to have in the industry in general. Everybody needs a hero they can relate to!

  4. IronMuskrat says:

    Another great segment guys.. I started writing as long rambling post, but I have to head out to my afternoon class and ran out of time.

    I don’t know if I will be able to finish it, be here is a partial rambling mess =)


    Great video as always guys. You really touched on some issues that have been bothering me for some time now.

    I think it was about year ago, when after spending a lot of time lurking around the YouTube CCW page I finally decided to get back into comic collecting again thanks to your videos and website, I was really looking forward to getting back to all of those old comic books that I loved as a kid. When I was a young I was all about X-Men(when it was just one book), Avengers, Batman, Superman, I read a lot of independent stuff to from Comico(remember those guys), but the solid, reliable good books were always the mainstream stuff from Marvel and DC.

    I was a bit shocked soon after getting to the collecting thing again at how much had changed in the flagship books from Marvel and DC. Gone was the solid long term writing and artwork, it was all about everything being dark, and edgy. My first experience with Marvel after so many years of being away was Dark Reign, cool a crossover event event to get back into he swing of things… whew let me tell you it was no Secret Wars.. it wasn't even an event really, because an event would dictate that there was a beginning and a end to the story. There was no real plot line, Dark Reign was basically just a bunch of bad guys running around doing whatever they wanted while the heroes either cowered in shadows hiding or sitting around eating Chinese food talking big shit and not really doing anything. I mean come on, And to top it all off in the worse way possible, Dark reign doesn't end, it just sort of peters out in to The Siege, OK, well this is were the bad guys get their asses kicked right? Nope, not really.. who really pays for the things that occurred during the Dark Reign event? The Sentry? He's the only guy that should have been treated with a little sympathy, but he gets served up as the sacrificial lamb that with his death all is well in the Marvel U, while all of the truly evil fucks slink off, escape or get to serve time in prison, where I am sure they will soon escape. I guess the moral of the story is it's good to be a bad guy on 616 Earth right now.

    But the thing that stuck with me the most in that whole deal was how badly all of the comics that I loved as a kid suck now.
    X-Men- a confusing mess that I cannot even attempt to decipher now.
    Avengers- Will Bendis please release his death grip on this book and let someone else have a shot.
    Iron Man- OK, major rehab is going on with Tony at this point, but was there a major Marvel hero in the past 10 years treated as badly as Tony Stark?
    Spider-Man- I admit, never been a huge fan of Spidey, but Marvel is making a mistake by removing him form his position as the moral center of the Marvel U.
    Batman- keep Miller away from him at this point and things are OK.

    Starting to ramble a bit now, let get to my point if I actually have one..

    Top five things kill the future of comics right now.

    Moral Ambiguity, I like dark, anti-heroes as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean that all heroes have to be like that. Spider-Man doesn't have to act like Punisher, that what you have the Punisher for.

    To be continued =)


    • Deemar says:



    • MicahSkin says:

      Treated worse than Tony?

      REED RICHARDS! An Iconic good guy who is virtuous exiles a friend (Bruce Banner) lies to his wife as to why he chose the pro-reg side, clones Thor to make the case for the reg side ect..

      REALLY?! This is the guy I’ve loved for a two decades? (Late to the FF Party. Started getting into them with “Days of Future Present”)

      And let’s keep in mind, X-Men hasn’t always been the most linear of stories either. 2 words. Siege perilous. 2-3 years of unconnected stories with amnesia X-men all over the globe. Featuring them for 1-2 issues then ditching them until Jim Lee has them guess for 2 issues. No wonder I liked New Mutants better.

  5. Mike F says:

    3:40 = Best moment 🙂

  6. Deemar says:

    Congrats E, more work mo money!

    Yeah seems kinda a no-brainer for a “female centric” Wonder Woman and that concept art on Bleedingcool was amazing.

    DC continues it’s slow descent.

  7. Funny you mentioned the Dark Phoenix Saga Elliot.
    I had my 4 year old nephew visiting asking me for comics.
    I gave him the Dark Phoenix TPB!…And there were not many alternatives.
    Its not like I can entertain the kid with Blankets.

    Superhero comics are something “innocent”. Thats the charm for me.
    And ofcourse, the never been seen before stuff and being a hero.
    I dont need blood and excessive violence in my X-men or Spider-Man.
    And sometimes it even bothers me.
    As i cant pass em around to youngsters for example!
    My idea is to put those things into what Marvel calls the MAX-series.
    Well, X-Men Max and Spider-Man Max are probably not gonna work…hehee

  8. great vid totally agree with all this i’m a teenager and whaen i was younger i read a batman comic related to the tv show and that was a bit dark. i knew the joker was bad and that he killed people but i wasn’t caring about shock.

    something i noticed was making it very hard to get people into comics as i was trying to find something light hearted and something very fun for a freind to read i had already gave him something dark and political but then i gave him invincible vol 1 which is a shinning beacon of old classic sliver age mixed with new gritty political problems i think invincible ticks all cookes boxes.

    i would like to see darwyn cooke do a book entirely of his own creation from IDW or image superhero silver sge feel like new frontier but entirely created by him.

    something he says i find very interesting batman not swearing batman nowadays is very angry very shouty batman dosen’t smile (christian bale batman) but millers batman (from batman and robin) isn’t angry to the bad guys and holding bad guys over ledges to make them talk. he’s a wanker he wants to feed dick grayson and shagging black canary just beacause some 40 year old comic fan wants to have a quick wank over that concept. or even batman swearing he’s a hero and i doubt there is a character that feels or has suffered more for his fellow man than bruce wayne he deserves a good all star book not that shit miller did!

    night night another great vid guys

  9. MicahSkin says:

    BTW, congrats for your announcement at the end! Hope it goes great!

  10. Wow. Excellent video guys! I don’t even know where to begin… how about I begin by saying: I’m loving Busiek and Cooke right now! I’m so happy that they are standing up to their beliefs. That Wonder Woman series sounded good. I would definitely read it. Man… DC has really been letting me down recently (although I must say I’m looking forward to Scott Snyder’s run on Detective and Tomasi and Gleason’s run on Batman and Robin in November). I became a DC fan literally a week or two before Blackest Night started and for those 7-8 months when BN was going I LOVED DC and other books they were producing, but man they’ve REALLY dropped the ball for me since than.

    I’m currently writing a LEGO Batman video series right now and I try to write with a consious mind and am trying to draw people into the series. They’re going to be things that regular Batman fans are going to recognize or understand well, but I’m trying not to make it so confusing that people who are unfamiliar with Batman can understand it as well. I can’t remember where I was going with this… oh well.

    Loved your McFarlane rant at the end J! It’s kinda funny because I just started reading early issues of Spawn for the first time.

  11. PILKK90 says:

    ok jose you just crossed the line, never insult the todd, rob liefeld is fine but never the todd. As for spawn he only told the same story for 168 issues, there was a brief period where the story advanced.

  12. Deemar says:

    Cooke and Busiek

    CCW Sainthood?

  13. Stamps says:

    I love this video. When I saw it was 26 minutes I knew there was going to be some good shit when down on the video. “Todd Mcfarlane and everything he jizzes over” -line of the video. Damn, it should have been the title.

    I think the thing that frustrates me the most in the comic book industry right now is the multiple books per character like Eliott was saying. When I got back into comics I went to where the Avengers are and found myself completely lost. Same thing with JSA and JLA to some degree.

    • Deemar says:

      Who doesn’t want 30 Wolverine titles? 😉

      It is getting out of hand, but Marvel gotta make that DeNiro.

      I bet if Forbushman was a breakout hit, we’d see 5 Forbushman books and he’d be an Avenger.

      • Stamps says:

        Yeah they’re even doing it to my beloved Batman.
        Thankfully, with Bats it’s not so bad because each book falls into a certain niche for different Batman fan reader types to some degree. (minus Streets of Gotham)
        I believe shortly though that’s going to change and DC is going to add a couple more titles by the end of the year.

        Another good thing is that they have the good sense to know they should NOT mess with any numbering on the top Bat titles like they have done with Wonder Woman and Green Lantern.
        Jesus I can’t even fathom the hell that would be raised if they said “Hey so Detective Comics is going to start all over with a new issue one in a couple months”

  14. PILKK90 says:

    the best thing todd ever did was spawn on HBO, one of the shows ever

  15. On a totally unrelated note:

    That was a sad story… I hope Joe Quesada has trouble sleeping at night for that piece of shit OMIT.

  16. PILKK90 says:

    ok everyone its past midnight in england i got work tomorrow so later and i dont to say something stupid in my sleep deprived state


  17. Edward2962 says:

    Another good and provoking video!

    Am I imagining things, but I thought I remember reading awhile back somewhere that DC was going to distribute a young readers Wonder Woman comic or story book, but it was only going to schools. Was this the Cook thing or am I confused?

    To Elliot’s point, sadly some folks have voted with their wallets and they’re voting FOR the shock material in the mainstream books. To use Millar as an example he did Trouble some years ago, it was basically a coming of age story and everyone hated it.He did 1985 recently, a young boy meets the old fashioned silver/bronze heroes it was completely ignored. His Fantastic Four made everyone go “Meh”. Meanwhile violent comics like Wanted and Kick Ass get turned into movies so the big companies go “This is what the fans want.” Hence, more tragedy porn, more heroes acting like d-bags.

    And I agree with Stamps, best line is “An’ everything he jizzes over!”

  18. phil says:

    And The Contrarion remains silent (that is except for saying “the contrarion remains silent” (that is…..oh you get it.)

  19. TheMSpot says:

    Great rant. It’s funny I started reading Kirkman’s work not only because of the CCW praise, but because of his mission statement video that he made on CBR. My first comment I ever made on the CCW YouTube channel was in reference to that. Now, with the recent video by Cooke and the comments by Busiek I will continue to support them. Like I said before I enjoy Cooke’s “Parker” book and can’t wait for the follow up volumes, and Busiek is going to write a follow up to his “Superman: Secret Identity” only this time it will be Batman. It’s nice to see top talent in the industry speaking their mind, and not acting like company men by just saying we are surviving and thriving when in reality it’s struggling and dying. Just look at the recent sales figures. The industry has gone from selling in the millions to barely selling a hundred thousand. There was a time when selling a 150 thousand was under performing.

    Those Wonder Woman pitches are great, I’d read them. Also, I really hope that those Cooke comments in regards to Batwoman were an after thought something that he threw in the heat of the moment, and not a knock against Rucka’s and William’s run on Detective.

    • phil says:

      Well M since I don’t want to be drawn and quartered for mentioning stuff that I would surely be flogged for, I’ll go the other route this time, and agree with you. At least as far as Kirkman goes. After havig seen Invincible a long time ago and thumbing thru it, I (as many of u know…I’m neither a Walker or Ottley fan) but after listening to E & Jose talk this comic up for soooooooo many times, I relented and picked an issue up (it was free comic book day) and about 5 or 6 issues and two omnibi later, I’m still hooked. As a matter of fact, it was my 1st video on youtube.

  20. Edward2962 says:

    This is the Wonder Woman kids series I was trying to remember…

    Darwyn was not involved it seems.

  21. Insideman says:

    You know,I could write a lot of shit about this video but I will give it the utmost respect and praise by just typing


  22. TheRichestManinTown says:

    I’m starting to notice a trend of Wonder Woman pitches that sound much better than Joseph Michael Straczynski Boring Woman. Grant Morrison, Darwyn Cooke, and Ben Caldwell all with a better take on the character than JMS’s G Rated Heavy Metal Wonder Woman.

    • I am with you 100% on that, man.


      • Insideman says:

        I had a pitch too.

        Wonder Woman and Plastic Man hit Vegas for a weekend of wild, drunken GONE WILD debauchery.

        Sample scene in the HIGH ROLLER SUITE HOT TUB:

        WONDER WOMAN: Plas, get your hand off me!

        PLASTIC MAN: That’s NOT my hand.


        WONDER WOMAN: Holy Athena!

        PLASTIC MAN: Cowabunga! There’s nothing left to wonder about Wonder Woman anymore!

        PLASTIC MAN (2): Wait ’til I tell Bats!

  23. Comics_Addict says:

    Awesome discussion you guys. Thank God I don’t have these sort of problems right now in the Superman books.

  24. kurumais says:

    here is part of the problem right here they are starting a new batman book by david finch with a 6 part story arc they want half a year of fans attention to get this book going and how much you want to bet that 6 issues could easily be done in 3?

  25. Hamdinger says:

    Hey Jose and Elliot, next time the All Ages thing comes up I’d use a few classic films as examples to show some exiting stories that everyone can enjoy like Raiders of the Lost Ark, the first Star Wars movie, Jurassic Park, the Pirates of the Caribbean etc. Those films all have action, adventure, a dash of humor, some suspense and can be enjoyed by all. Raiders and even Star Wars (a very tiny bit) had a bit of blood but was not a gore-fest.

    I just used these films as examples of good all ages stories instead of comics since nearly every one on the plane has seen them and it makes it damn clear that that All Ages doesn’t mean cudly wudly stories for little toddlers.

    It’d funny if these movies were written by many of the current or recent Marvel/DC writers and editorial folks, let’s see. Marion (raiders) and Princess Leigh (SW) would have been raped, there would be entrails and body parts everywhere as Darth Vader uses the Force to explode Rebel Troops aplenty, all the good guys would simply be transformed from the good guys into unlikable protagonists who constantly spout sarcastic comments that would fail at being witty banter and the twist is the Rebellion would have been run another evil organization etc. I could go on, cuz really this is kinda fun! lol

  26. Locusmortis says:

    Evan Dorkin commented on regarding whether comics these days give a “satisfying chunk” of entertainment as in….are they value for money?

    “The “satisfying chunk” is still out there, still being offered by a number of people, it just doesn’t always feature Marvel or DC superheroes. It’s not dead by any means. It’s just not popular with creators or editorial, because the satisfying chunk isn’t easy to put together anymore without Stan Lee captions, and no one wants to tell their two-issue arc in two issues anymore when they can make six issues worth of paychecks and then get a thicker, more expensive book collection out and perhaps royalties as the cherry on top. And, this method of plotting/writing also allows folks to write more books per month, nosing arcs along with fewer panels, more spreads, less actual writing. Unless they’re dialogue fetishists, and just type whatever the editor allows. “

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