Check out the original article on Bleeding Cool
And here is the Darwyn Cooke video:
CCW 3.94: LAST RANTS (or) “WE WERE RIGHT!”
Posted: September 15, 2010 in DC Comics, Last Rants, Marvel, OpinionTags: Comic Books, Darwyn Cooke, DC, Kurt Busiek, Last Rants, Marvel
Comments
The CCW*TV Companion Blog 
nice vid boys
I think the way to get young female readers is through animation just ask stamps. I pointed out before I noticed a most fan girls came to comics through batman TAS. Im sure the justice league and teen titans cartoons made a whole lot more and I bet the young justice cartoon will make a few more .
marvel did the whole thing with women comics but I kept wondering how all those girls are supposed to find out these books were waiting for them ? did they think word of mouth from fanboys was going to spread the word? That fanboys were going to go tell their sisters. Girlfriends, daughters etc about them and these new female readers were going to come in? that darwyne cook wonder woman book sounds great who would buy it? You jose? You are already a ww fan that’s not going to help dc or wonder woman. Dc did a great young readers supergirl book cosmic advrenturs in the 8th grade nobody cared didn’t sell. I kept wondering why isn’t this on cartoon network?
You guys took a shot at marvel’s HER oes book but did you look at? It was a fun book exactly the kind of book you are asking for I gave it to couple of girls who really liked it . I d be shocked if it sold 15k copies but if it was on tv as a cartoon I think it would be a hit .
But even then how well do the cartoon superhero tie books sell? How well does brave and the bold sell whren the cartoon does really well? The teen titans go book failed . there are quite a few very good young reader / all ages books out there many female friendly and they don’t sell. So how do you fix that?
yep Batman TAS was my gateway drug I’m proud to say 🙂
Sup Stamps
hey D 🙂 not much. You?
Mine too Stamps!!! 😀
You have taste venom
Right back at ya’!
Great vid guys. Best part, Jose’s mini Todd Mcfarlane rant!!! 🙂
I didn’t think I could love you guys any more than I already did, but this video took the cake! I respect your opinions a lot and feel very much the same way about much of what you discuss. I spend less time in comic book shops these days and more time at my local flea market buying stuff from 10, 20 years ago… it only costs me a buck or two and it’s better material.
I also want to thank both of you for being ready to defend Batwoman at a moments notice. As a lesbian reader, the character is obviously very important to me and, I think, very important to have in the industry in general. Everybody needs a hero they can relate to!
Another great segment guys.. I started writing as long rambling post, but I have to head out to my afternoon class and ran out of time.
I don’t know if I will be able to finish it, be here is a partial rambling mess =)
<<<<<<
Great video as always guys. You really touched on some issues that have been bothering me for some time now.
I think it was about year ago, when after spending a lot of time lurking around the YouTube CCW page I finally decided to get back into comic collecting again thanks to your videos and website, I was really looking forward to getting back to all of those old comic books that I loved as a kid. When I was a young I was all about X-Men(when it was just one book), Avengers, Batman, Superman, I read a lot of independent stuff to from Comico(remember those guys), but the solid, reliable good books were always the mainstream stuff from Marvel and DC.
I was a bit shocked soon after getting to the collecting thing again at how much had changed in the flagship books from Marvel and DC. Gone was the solid long term writing and artwork, it was all about everything being dark, and edgy. My first experience with Marvel after so many years of being away was Dark Reign, cool a crossover event event to get back into he swing of things… whew let me tell you it was no Secret Wars.. it wasn't even an event really, because an event would dictate that there was a beginning and a end to the story. There was no real plot line, Dark Reign was basically just a bunch of bad guys running around doing whatever they wanted while the heroes either cowered in shadows hiding or sitting around eating Chinese food talking big shit and not really doing anything. I mean come on, And to top it all off in the worse way possible, Dark reign doesn't end, it just sort of peters out in to The Siege, OK, well this is were the bad guys get their asses kicked right? Nope, not really.. who really pays for the things that occurred during the Dark Reign event? The Sentry? He's the only guy that should have been treated with a little sympathy, but he gets served up as the sacrificial lamb that with his death all is well in the Marvel U, while all of the truly evil fucks slink off, escape or get to serve time in prison, where I am sure they will soon escape. I guess the moral of the story is it's good to be a bad guy on 616 Earth right now.
But the thing that stuck with me the most in that whole deal was how badly all of the comics that I loved as a kid suck now.
X-Men- a confusing mess that I cannot even attempt to decipher now.
Avengers- Will Bendis please release his death grip on this book and let someone else have a shot.
Iron Man- OK, major rehab is going on with Tony at this point, but was there a major Marvel hero in the past 10 years treated as badly as Tony Stark?
Spider-Man- I admit, never been a huge fan of Spidey, but Marvel is making a mistake by removing him form his position as the moral center of the Marvel U.
Batman- keep Miller away from him at this point and things are OK.
Starting to ramble a bit now, let get to my point if I actually have one..
Top five things kill the future of comics right now.
Moral Ambiguity, I like dark, anti-heroes as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean that all heroes have to be like that. Spider-Man doesn't have to act like Punisher, that what you have the Punisher for.
To be continued =)
IM
Cliffnotes!
😉
Treated worse than Tony?
REED RICHARDS! An Iconic good guy who is virtuous exiles a friend (Bruce Banner) lies to his wife as to why he chose the pro-reg side, clones Thor to make the case for the reg side ect..
REALLY?! This is the guy I’ve loved for a two decades? (Late to the FF Party. Started getting into them with “Days of Future Present”)
And let’s keep in mind, X-Men hasn’t always been the most linear of stories either. 2 words. Siege perilous. 2-3 years of unconnected stories with amnesia X-men all over the globe. Featuring them for 1-2 issues then ditching them until Jim Lee has them guess for 2 issues. No wonder I liked New Mutants better.
I kinda liked “Civil War era” Tony Stark.
I hated Civil War era Tony Stark. He was such a dick to everyone that I just had no sympathy for Tony at all. Thankfully Matt Fraction revived the character (literally) and made him interesting and sympathetic again.
I really liked civil war Tony but redemption Tony is so good and complex that I prefer the current Stark ultimately. (even if the book is starting to lose me a little bit)
Agree, his whole character arc from 2006 onward has made him one of the most compelling heroes at Marvel.
3:40 = Best moment 🙂
3:40-3:52 = BEST MOMENT (my mistake, hit submit button too soon)
Congrats E, more work mo money!
Yeah seems kinda a no-brainer for a “female centric” Wonder Woman and that concept art on Bleedingcool was amazing.
DC continues it’s slow descent.
Funny you mentioned the Dark Phoenix Saga Elliot.
I had my 4 year old nephew visiting asking me for comics.
I gave him the Dark Phoenix TPB!…And there were not many alternatives.
Its not like I can entertain the kid with Blankets.
Superhero comics are something “innocent”. Thats the charm for me.
And ofcourse, the never been seen before stuff and being a hero.
I dont need blood and excessive violence in my X-men or Spider-Man.
And sometimes it even bothers me.
As i cant pass em around to youngsters for example!
My idea is to put those things into what Marvel calls the MAX-series.
Well, X-Men Max and Spider-Man Max are probably not gonna work…hehee
great vid totally agree with all this i’m a teenager and whaen i was younger i read a batman comic related to the tv show and that was a bit dark. i knew the joker was bad and that he killed people but i wasn’t caring about shock.
something i noticed was making it very hard to get people into comics as i was trying to find something light hearted and something very fun for a freind to read i had already gave him something dark and political but then i gave him invincible vol 1 which is a shinning beacon of old classic sliver age mixed with new gritty political problems i think invincible ticks all cookes boxes.
i would like to see darwyn cooke do a book entirely of his own creation from IDW or image superhero silver sge feel like new frontier but entirely created by him.
something he says i find very interesting batman not swearing batman nowadays is very angry very shouty batman dosen’t smile (christian bale batman) but millers batman (from batman and robin) isn’t angry to the bad guys and holding bad guys over ledges to make them talk. he’s a wanker he wants to feed dick grayson and shagging black canary just beacause some 40 year old comic fan wants to have a quick wank over that concept. or even batman swearing he’s a hero and i doubt there is a character that feels or has suffered more for his fellow man than bruce wayne he deserves a good all star book not that shit miller did!
night night another great vid guys
BTW, congrats for your announcement at the end! Hope it goes great!
Wow. Excellent video guys! I don’t even know where to begin… how about I begin by saying: I’m loving Busiek and Cooke right now! I’m so happy that they are standing up to their beliefs. That Wonder Woman series sounded good. I would definitely read it. Man… DC has really been letting me down recently (although I must say I’m looking forward to Scott Snyder’s run on Detective and Tomasi and Gleason’s run on Batman and Robin in November). I became a DC fan literally a week or two before Blackest Night started and for those 7-8 months when BN was going I LOVED DC and other books they were producing, but man they’ve REALLY dropped the ball for me since than.
I’m currently writing a LEGO Batman video series right now and I try to write with a consious mind and am trying to draw people into the series. They’re going to be things that regular Batman fans are going to recognize or understand well, but I’m trying not to make it so confusing that people who are unfamiliar with Batman can understand it as well. I can’t remember where I was going with this… oh well.
Loved your McFarlane rant at the end J! It’s kinda funny because I just started reading early issues of Spawn for the first time.
ok jose you just crossed the line, never insult the todd, rob liefeld is fine but never the todd. As for spawn he only told the same story for 168 issues, there was a brief period where the story advanced.
I like you.
🙂
u funny
concur. You sir slay me.
thank you, and i like your drawings, i wish i could draw but im really bad at it, i cant make stick figures look good
Just stay witty and that’s enough.
Oh and worship at the feet of our lady Stamps
It’s cool PILKK90, I drew a dog on a piece of paper when I was on the phone at work recently and someone told me later that they thought I drew a bad alligator. I feel your pain.
As a note for future reference, I will except tithing as a form of worship. (Visa and Mastercard excepted, no American Express please)
-Lady Stamps
*Pays overdue credit card bill*
i hope you take pound stirling and going currrency rates
mm-hmm yep. Direct wire transfers as well.
168 issues, 200 issues what’s the difference??? 🙂
about 32 good stories
I’ve only read a couple of the EARLY, EARLY issues of Spawn so far. Art is good, but I’m unimpressed by the story where I’m at currently.
ironically the best stories are when todd isnt writing
I can imagine that. Who else has written Spawn?
david hine and brian holguin, and a new witer called will carlton takes over at 201, holguin wrote an awesome mini called godslayer but they cancelled it after 8 issues so it never fully finished.
Spawn has had some top talent on it.
Sadly no one of late has figured out how to bring Spawn back (in a good way)
They should just let Kirkman have spawn and do what he wants with him.
kirkman is writing a bit of spawn 200
Cooke and Busiek
CCW Sainthood?
Yeah. I’m seeing ccw nation members wearing medals and having dashboard figurines of them now.
Heh, as E&J said they are of like minds.
I would LOVE something like that! That’d be awesome!
well we do have a small club of writers pretty much all of the CCWNation loves.
Robert Kirkman
Jonathan Maberry
John Layman
Dan Slott
Jeff Parker
Yes you too Elliot. 😉
Where does Jeph Loeb fall?
I mean his DC stuff is good to great but his Marvel work is well ah shit.
Matthew
Loeb = Lucifer
Thanks Deemar, you always give me comic book clarity w/ Jose when he is ranting on Grant Morrison & Tony Daniel.
Matthew
I’m here for you.
CCW support group
🙂
I love this video. When I saw it was 26 minutes I knew there was going to be some good shit when down on the video. “Todd Mcfarlane and everything he jizzes over” -line of the video. Damn, it should have been the title.
I think the thing that frustrates me the most in the comic book industry right now is the multiple books per character like Eliott was saying. When I got back into comics I went to where the Avengers are and found myself completely lost. Same thing with JSA and JLA to some degree.
Who doesn’t want 30 Wolverine titles? 😉
It is getting out of hand, but Marvel gotta make that DeNiro.
I bet if Forbushman was a breakout hit, we’d see 5 Forbushman books and he’d be an Avenger.
Yeah they’re even doing it to my beloved Batman.
Thankfully, with Bats it’s not so bad because each book falls into a certain niche for different Batman fan reader types to some degree. (minus Streets of Gotham)
I believe shortly though that’s going to change and DC is going to add a couple more titles by the end of the year.
Another good thing is that they have the good sense to know they should NOT mess with any numbering on the top Bat titles like they have done with Wonder Woman and Green Lantern.
Jesus I can’t even fathom the hell that would be raised if they said “Hey so Detective Comics is going to start all over with a new issue one in a couple months”
I don’t know Stamps DC is quickly adopting Marvel tactics, and it’s only gonna get worse.
Batman is on semi-solid footing, but it only takes another Darkseid Omega beam or Tony Daniel “Epic Fail” to cause the Batbooks to suck.
We lost Rucka on Batwoman that’s bad enough
At least Batman hasn’t had a story as bad as OMIT or One More Day… yet. (At least that I know of) Oh and RIGHT before I click ‘submit’ I’m reminded of All-Star Batman and Robin and DK2. Never mind!
oh god All-Star Batman. The “title that should not be spoken of” has been mentioned. My eyes they bleed. ahhhhhhhhhh
Sorry I reminded you of All-Star Batman and Robin, Stamps 😦
i like allstar bats i thought it was funny
Glad you caught yourself. 😉
Oh no I know…dark times are ahead for my Brucie, it’s already started.
Really? I’m looking forward to Scott Snyder and Jock’s run on Detective. I’m also looking forward to Pete Tomasi and Patrick Gleason’s run of Batman and Robin. Everything else in the Bat books I’ll tune out unless it gets high praise from the CCW Nation.
the best thing todd ever did was spawn on HBO, one of the shows ever
The best thing Todd ever did was stop writing and drawing comics.
J.
i liked his art, but damn he repeats everything he writes
lmao
Not even buying those baseballs in the 90s?
buying baseballs and constantly having lawsuit after lawsuit, he was a busy man in the 90s
Todd became a parody of himself
On a totally unrelated note:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/09/15/saying-goodbye-to-spider-man-by-matthew-h-kleinert/
That was a sad story… I hope Joe Quesada has trouble sleeping at night for that piece of shit OMIT.
Truth to Power
I couldn’t have said it any better.
Great way of throwing that line right back a Quesada.
With OMIT it is the final nail in the coffin I may never return to.
i was just going to ask if anyone saw that essay
I would give up on ASM but Dan Slott is going to be writing stories soon and he has not let me down on ASM, so the first few issues of his run will determine if I’ll stay or go. I’m hoping for greatness.
I don’t understand the love that Dan Slott gets from some people. I’ve found his ASM stories to be thoroughly mediocre and I haven’t enjoyed a single one of them. Also, the way the man interacts with fans online is downright unprofessional at times and that just makes me want to avoid his work.
Hey your opinion, but STFU.
Respectfully.
Deemar, you make a compelling argument for Slott’s greatness and I find myself unable to even form a rebuttal. Your insightful and thought-provoking response has shown me the error of my ways and I thank you for it. Now I can finally go and join the ever-shrinking number of readers who continue to enjoy Amazing Spider-Man.
I like your style Tiger Topher. 🙂
J.
ok everyone its past midnight in england i got work tomorrow so later and i dont to say something stupid in my sleep deprived state
TODD IS THE BEST COMIC WRITER AND ARTIST EVER AND JOSE WE WANT A TONY DANIEL BATMAN REVIEW, YOU TAKE THE SHIT SO WE DONT HAVE TO
good night PILKK90
good night
Another good and provoking video!
Am I imagining things, but I thought I remember reading awhile back somewhere that DC was going to distribute a young readers Wonder Woman comic or story book, but it was only going to schools. Was this the Cook thing or am I confused?
To Elliot’s point, sadly some folks have voted with their wallets and they’re voting FOR the shock material in the mainstream books. To use Millar as an example he did Trouble some years ago, it was basically a coming of age story and everyone hated it.He did 1985 recently, a young boy meets the old fashioned silver/bronze heroes it was completely ignored. His Fantastic Four made everyone go “Meh”. Meanwhile violent comics like Wanted and Kick Ass get turned into movies so the big companies go “This is what the fans want.” Hence, more tragedy porn, more heroes acting like d-bags.
And I agree with Stamps, best line is “An’ everything he jizzes over!”
And The Contrarion remains silent (that is except for saying “the contrarion remains silent” (that is…..oh you get it.)
Great rant. It’s funny I started reading Kirkman’s work not only because of the CCW praise, but because of his mission statement video that he made on CBR. My first comment I ever made on the CCW YouTube channel was in reference to that. Now, with the recent video by Cooke and the comments by Busiek I will continue to support them. Like I said before I enjoy Cooke’s “Parker” book and can’t wait for the follow up volumes, and Busiek is going to write a follow up to his “Superman: Secret Identity” only this time it will be Batman. It’s nice to see top talent in the industry speaking their mind, and not acting like company men by just saying we are surviving and thriving when in reality it’s struggling and dying. Just look at the recent sales figures. The industry has gone from selling in the millions to barely selling a hundred thousand. There was a time when selling a 150 thousand was under performing.
Those Wonder Woman pitches are great, I’d read them. Also, I really hope that those Cooke comments in regards to Batwoman were an after thought something that he threw in the heat of the moment, and not a knock against Rucka’s and William’s run on Detective.
Well M since I don’t want to be drawn and quartered for mentioning stuff that I would surely be flogged for, I’ll go the other route this time, and agree with you. At least as far as Kirkman goes. After havig seen Invincible a long time ago and thumbing thru it, I (as many of u know…I’m neither a Walker or Ottley fan) but after listening to E & Jose talk this comic up for soooooooo many times, I relented and picked an issue up (it was free comic book day) and about 5 or 6 issues and two omnibi later, I’m still hooked. As a matter of fact, it was my 1st video on youtube.
This is the Wonder Woman kids series I was trying to remember…
http://www.graphicnovelreporter.com/content/wonder-words-beyond-pages
Darwyn was not involved it seems.
You know,I could write a lot of shit about this video but I will give it the utmost respect and praise by just typing
BRILLIANT. FUCKING ASS BRILLIANT.
I’m starting to notice a trend of Wonder Woman pitches that sound much better than Joseph Michael Straczynski Boring Woman. Grant Morrison, Darwyn Cooke, and Ben Caldwell all with a better take on the character than JMS’s G Rated Heavy Metal Wonder Woman.
I am with you 100% on that, man.
J.
I had a pitch too.
Wonder Woman and Plastic Man hit Vegas for a weekend of wild, drunken GONE WILD debauchery.
Sample scene in the HIGH ROLLER SUITE HOT TUB:
WONDER WOMAN: Plas, get your hand off me!
PLASTIC MAN: That’s NOT my hand.
SUDDENLY, THE LIGHTS IN THE SUITE GO OUT. COMPLETELY BLACK PANEL. ONLY WW’S & PM’S WORD BALLOONS ARE SEEN:
WONDER WOMAN: Holy Athena!
PLASTIC MAN: Cowabunga! There’s nothing left to wonder about Wonder Woman anymore!
PLASTIC MAN (2): Wait ’til I tell Bats!
Awesome discussion you guys. Thank God I don’t have these sort of problems right now in the Superman books.
here is part of the problem right here they are starting a new batman book by david finch with a 6 part story arc they want half a year of fans attention to get this book going and how much you want to bet that 6 issues could easily be done in 3?
Probably 2 issues, and maybe 12 pages if it was a golden age writer! haha
Hey Jose and Elliot, next time the All Ages thing comes up I’d use a few classic films as examples to show some exiting stories that everyone can enjoy like Raiders of the Lost Ark, the first Star Wars movie, Jurassic Park, the Pirates of the Caribbean etc. Those films all have action, adventure, a dash of humor, some suspense and can be enjoyed by all. Raiders and even Star Wars (a very tiny bit) had a bit of blood but was not a gore-fest.
I just used these films as examples of good all ages stories instead of comics since nearly every one on the plane has seen them and it makes it damn clear that that All Ages doesn’t mean cudly wudly stories for little toddlers.
It’d funny if these movies were written by many of the current or recent Marvel/DC writers and editorial folks, let’s see. Marion (raiders) and Princess Leigh (SW) would have been raped, there would be entrails and body parts everywhere as Darth Vader uses the Force to explode Rebel Troops aplenty, all the good guys would simply be transformed from the good guys into unlikable protagonists who constantly spout sarcastic comments that would fail at being witty banter and the twist is the Rebellion would have been run another evil organization etc. I could go on, cuz really this is kinda fun! lol
Love your examples, they’re dead on concerning this stigma of an All Ages rating and showing why its just stupid.
Evan Dorkin commented on http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/09/15/august-apocalypse-how-bad/ regarding whether comics these days give a “satisfying chunk” of entertainment as in….are they value for money?
“The “satisfying chunk” is still out there, still being offered by a number of people, it just doesn’t always feature Marvel or DC superheroes. It’s not dead by any means. It’s just not popular with creators or editorial, because the satisfying chunk isn’t easy to put together anymore without Stan Lee captions, and no one wants to tell their two-issue arc in two issues anymore when they can make six issues worth of paychecks and then get a thicker, more expensive book collection out and perhaps royalties as the cherry on top. And, this method of plotting/writing also allows folks to write more books per month, nosing arcs along with fewer panels, more spreads, less actual writing. Unless they’re dialogue fetishists, and just type whatever the editor allows. “
That Jonathan Ross comic is pretty “Chunky” as I understand it.